The Problems Of Rural Christian White Americans

[bilby]

That's bigotry at best, racism at worst. It is the contempt by the progressives towards the rural that caused the rural to reject the progressives. You are a symptom of why they didn't vote the way you wanted them to.

No, it's a rejection of your retarded strawman.

I made a long and detailed post earlier in the thread explaining my actual position. Nobody cared. Nobody ever cares - this isn't a debate, it's a tribal conflict in which no minds can be changed. So now I am mocking your pomposity, because it seems like by far the biggest and most worthy target of ridicule.

I dunno.

I think your commentary on a country you would not deign to visit is a pretty big and very worthy target of ridicule.

Ah, lovely tribalism. What would we do without it. I am not entitled to an opinion on America, because I am not there, and haven't been there in years (I might visit again one day, but not in the near future). While you, who hasn't been to the VAST majority of America for years either, ARE allowed an opinion, because you have been to small bits of the place.

Never mind that your information about the majority of the country comes from the exact same places as mine - the media. I can be blithely dismissed, because I'm not a part of your tribe. YOU know what's happening in Congress and in the White House, because you live in the same country as these buildings. You know about every rural town that you haven't visited by the same magic. I cannot know, because I do not live in the same nation.

The irony is staggering.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

and yet, they are still the only ones offering help, so really what you're saying it is that being helped but without a sufficient level of self-worth affirming fawning over you is worse than being punched in the ballsack repeatedly and then once you're on the ground curled up in a ball being robbed and spit on.

They're not the only ones offering to help. The religious nuts want you to listen to a sermon to get your meal. The progressives want you to give them power to get your meal.

if you're some country bumpkin who is part of a generational community that had its entire economic stability based on a factory, and that factory closes, and your economy collapses, and everyone in your town is totally up shit creek, and someone shows up and says "here, i have ways of fixing all your problems, you just need to heap praise on me and all your lives and the lives of your children will be saved" then put on your boot licking gloves and a big smile and be fucking grateful the person didn't show up and take a choleric shit in your town well.

There, you admit it. You don't actually want to help for the sake of help, you want to help for the sake of power. At least you're finally honest about it.

and anyone who refuses to move can fuck off and die.

That's the final piece of it. Those who refuse you should die.

 

[Elixir]

They're not the only ones offering to help. The religious nuts want you to listen to a sermon to get your meal. The progressives want you to give them power to get your meal.

Gee, it's no contest then. listen to the sermon and you get the meal PLUS eternal fucking bliss! No wonder the gullibles turn their backs on progressives. But... is it only progressives, or all DEMOCRATS? I think it's the latter, because that's what the self-appointed dispensers of eternal life/bliss tell the gullibles.

You don't actually want to help for the sake of help, you want to help for the sake of power.

I'd like to help, but right now, the power is in the hands of the most destructive and evil set of criminals ever to wield it in this country - so I'll gladly postpone helping the mentally disadvantaged to wrest power away from those who will screw both me and those same disadvantaged ones in the not-so-long run.

Those who refuse you should die.

Those who refuse to reject the current criminal cabal will die, and so will those who reject Cheato&Co. The difference is that we will (almost) all die a lot sooner and in a lot more misery, if these mendacious crooks are allowed to amass every bit of power and wealth to be had in this country, and destroy democracy in the process. And make no mistake - totalitarian rule is the object of their game.

 

[prideandfall]

They're not the only ones offering to help. The religious nuts want you to listen to a sermon to get your meal. The progressives want you to give them power to get your meal.

okay... and? what's your point?

There, you admit it.

.... hahahahahaha, admit WHAT!? you mean the thing i've been yelling from basically ever post i've ever had on this forum on every topic? that i'm a cynical humanity-hating existential nihilist who cares deeply about politics but only because it's fucking hilarious to me how unbelievably stupid humans are?
that selflessness is a lie and all acts are based on self gratification? that those who get help shouldn't need to heap praise on their helpers, but nor should the helpers have to help those in need?

what exactly is it that you think you're breaking through here? before you start trying to make some kind of 'gotcha!' pronouncement to a specific poster you really should try and have any semblance of a clue who you're talking to, because that was seriously one of the fucking dumbest things anyone has ever said in the history of this forum.

You don't actually want to help for the sake of help, you want to help for the sake of power. At least you're finally honest about it.

i always have been, this is nothing new to anyone who has paid even the slightest attention to my posting history over the last almost 2 decades.
not that you should be intimately familiar with every poster here, mind you, but JFC don't try to pull this shit on a moral relativist who loathes humanity.

That's the final piece of it. Those who refuse you should die.

me? no - because i'm nobody.
those who refuse to be helped out of the pit of frothing agitated vipers that they are stuck in? yes, they should die.

 

[Alcoholic Actuary]

sister-fucking hillbillies
their poverty and stupidity
stupid fuckwits can't get their shit together enough to sustain themselves, actively work to decrease their ability to ever prosper, and then blame their failure on the only people trying to help them

I've seen the progressive "we want to help you" attitude. I've written about it before, the casual contempt they have for those they want to "help", their smug superiority. Conservatives say you need Jesus, progressives say the ARE Jesus. If you're poor, like I have been more than once, they're so ready to "help", just as long as you do whatever they say because they are so much smarter and more moral than you. And everyone is, of course, supposed to be fawning grateful to them for their help which is their real payment. It isn't "I'm satisfied that I helped someone", it is "I am satisfied by their thanks and praise."

"Everything you are doing is wrong unless I told you to do it." It was my own poverty experience that led me to libertarianism, and it is an in-joke among libertarians that the "povertarians" are the most radical. That's because we see the strings that are attached to the "help" and the arrogance of those who offer the "help". They don't ask for much, just your worship.

If you dare reject them? Oh boy, the fall of Lucifer doesn't start to compare to the rage with which progressives condemn those who reject them. You demonstrate it multiple times. Look at how you describe people who reject your benevolent superiority. Look at the terms you use. Have you ever been outside of the coastal cities? Have you ever been to flyover country? I'm not talking deep Appalachia here, I'm talking the typical small town. And I mean for more than a "we're stopping for gas as we travel from big city to big city".

I am progressive, and I don't want to 'help' anyone beyond their willingness to ask for it. You are misconstruing a perfectly legitimate purpose of democratic governance. Again, we pass laws for society to uphold based on where the people are. How strictly are these laws enforced on the random casual individual choosing to live 'off the reservation'. The only rational argument made by those consistent with your way of thinking is 'I don't want to pay for X', ie taxes for things like UHC or SNAP. Well guess what. No one wants to pay for paved roads and mail service and electricity and water to the middle of bumblefuck Kansas either. But we do it because we feel that even the most remote outpost of the continent deserves to be a part of our society.

But ask for something like UHC so 'everyone' can get health care and libertarians retreat into "not my problem" mode. And progressives are the hypocrites?

aa

 

[Toni]

I dunno.

I think your commentary on a country you would not deign to visit is a pretty big and very worthy target of ridicule.

Ah, lovely tribalism. What would we do without it. I am not entitled to an opinion on America, because I am not there, and haven't been there in years (I might visit again one day, but not in the near future). While you, who hasn't been to the VAST majority of America for years either, ARE allowed an opinion, because you have been to small bits of the place.

Never mind that your information about the majority of the country comes from the exact same places as mine - the media. I can be blithely dismissed, because I'm not a part of your tribe. YOU know what's happening in Congress and in the White House, because you live in the same country as these buildings. You know about every rural town that you haven't visited by the same magic. I cannot know, because I do not live in the same nation.

The irony is staggering.

Sorry but you are mistaken about my travels in The US, about my personal connections —friends and family members with whom I maintain good, ongoing relationships. Or that living some place for years and being related to a good number of the people gives one a good deal of insight that tourists never experience.

So no: my information does not come from the same place yours does. Mine comes from personal experience and years spent living in quite aduverse cross setion of the US.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

At least libertarians aren't saying that those who disagree with the us need to be rounded up and sent to reeducation camps, and those who don't want to can just go die and reduce the surplus population.

 

[ZiprHead]

I've seen the progressive "we want to help you" attitude. I've written about it before, the casual contempt they have for those they want to "help", their smug superiority. Conservatives say you need Jesus, progressives say the ARE Jesus. If you're poor, like I have been more than once, they're so ready to "help", just as long as you do whatever they say because they are so much smarter and more moral than you. And everyone is, of course, supposed to be fawning grateful to them for their help which is their real payment. It isn't "I'm satisfied that I helped someone", it is "I am satisfied by their thanks and praise."

"Everything you are doing is wrong unless I told you to do it." It was my own poverty experience that led me to libertarianism, and it is an in-joke among libertarians that the "povertarians" are the most radical. That's because we see the strings that are attached to the "help" and the arrogance of those who offer the "help". They don't ask for much, just your worship.

If you dare reject them? Oh boy, the fall of Lucifer doesn't start to compare to the rage with which progressives condemn those who reject them. You demonstrate it multiple times. Look at how you describe people who reject your benevolent superiority. Look at the terms you use. Have you ever been outside of the coastal cities? Have you ever been to flyover country? I'm not talking deep Appalachia here, I'm talking the typical small town. And I mean for more than a "we're stopping for gas as we travel from big city to big city".

This seems to have been a life changing experience for you. Could you perhaps provide more details of your experience with the "povertarians?

 

[bilby]

I dunno.

I think your commentary on a country you would not deign to visit is a pretty big and very worthy target of ridicule.

Ah, lovely tribalism. What would we do without it. I am not entitled to an opinion on America, because I am not there, and haven't been there in years (I might visit again one day, but not in the near future). While you, who hasn't been to the VAST majority of America for years either, ARE allowed an opinion, because you have been to small bits of the place.

Never mind that your information about the majority of the country comes from the exact same places as mine - the media. I can be blithely dismissed, because I'm not a part of your tribe. YOU know what's happening in Congress and in the White House, because you live in the same country as these buildings. You know about every rural town that you haven't visited by the same magic. I cannot know, because I do not live in the same nation.

The irony is staggering.

Sorry but you are mistaken about my travels in The US, about my personal connections —friends and family members with whom I maintain good, ongoing relationships. Or that living some place for years and being related to a good number of the people gives one a good deal of insight that tourists never experience.

So no: my information does not come from the same place yours does. Mine comes from personal experience and years spent living in quite aduverse cross setion of the US.

There is a big difference between experience and understanding; And contrary to popular belief, experience is not necessary for, and nor is it superior to, understanding.

Your dismissal of my commentary is justified only by your unreasonable and tribalistic epistemology. I make no claim about your knowledge, other than that you are in no position to assume that it is greater than mine, solely on the basis of my lack of direct experience. Despite your emotional attachment to the belief that it must be.

Essentially you are engaged in a variant of the appeal to authority fallacy, with those who live in the USA being cast in the role of authorities. Being a haddock doesn't make one an authority on fisheries policy, and not being a haddock certainly isn't grounds to dismiss a person's opinion on the topic.

 

[prideandfall]

At least libertarians aren't saying that those who disagree with the us need to be rounded up and sent to reeducation camps

yeah really... all libertarians say is that if you're poor and get sick, die quickly or destroy your family financially.
all libertarians are saying is that if you're not already wealthy, go live in the muck and hope somebody with money deigns to piss on you.

you're literally saying "oh you're in trouble? well go fuck yourself loser" is preferable to "oh you're in trouble? well here is ALL the help you need, you just have to express some gratitude for it" and acting like your position is somehow superior.

and those who don't want to can just go die and reduce the surplus population.

liberals aren't saying that either, unless all the sudden i'm the sole spokesperson for all of liberalism, in which case holy shit why didn't somebody tell me, and holy shit there are gonna be some changes in this country.

 

[Toni]

Sorry but you are mistaken about my travels in The US, about my personal connections —friends and family members with whom I maintain good, ongoing relationships. Or that living some place for years and being related to a good number of the people gives one a good deal of insight that tourists never experience.

So no: my information does not come from the same place yours does. Mine comes from personal experience and years spent living in quite aduverse cross setion of the US.

There is a big difference between experience and understanding; And contrary to popular belief, experience is not necessary for, and nor is it superior to, understanding.

Your dismissal of my commentary is justified only by your unreasonable and tribalistic epistemology. I make no claim about your knowledge, other than that you are in no position to assume that it is greater than mine, solely on the basis of my lack of direct experience. Despite your emotional attachment to the belief that it must be.

Essentially you are engaged in a variant of the appeal to authority fallacy, with those who live in the USA being cast in the role of authorities. Being a haddock doesn't make one an authority on fisheries policy, and not being a haddock certainly isn't grounds to dismiss a person's opinion on the topic.

By your reasoning, I am as great an expert on Australian politics as you are because I’ve seen all of the Crocadile Dundee movies, know who Nicole Kidman is and used to have neighbors who were from Australia.

 

[rousseau]

so why do they feel democrats have abandoned them, aside from just stupidly buying into propaganda?

Between the RNC and the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service, the media they receive is overwhelmingly dominated by right-wing propaganda. You can't completely blame them for swallowing it, since it's almost all they have access to.

Also this.

I recall hearing the term 'dis-reality bubble'. That about sums it up.

 

[scombrid]

so why do they feel democrats have abandoned them, aside from just stupidly buying into propaganda?

Between the RNC and the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service, the media they receive is overwhelmingly dominated by right-wing propaganda. You can't completely blame them for swallowing it, since it's almost all they have access to.

Also this.

I recall hearing the term 'dis-reality bubble'. That about sums it up.

Trump and Hannity tell them that they are in the dumps of shuttered mills and automated coal mines while the Democrats are giving all the freebies to minorities and ignoring the regular good folk of middle America.

That is why the Breitbart-Trumpublican-Drudgers make so much noise about the social justice warriors and why they spent so much effort provoking a response with shenanigans like Charlottesville and the Milo publicity stunts on campuses where he knew he could get a rise. They get that frenzy whipped up and then point at the response and then the message is "See white working class vanilla America, the Democrats only care about minorities and gays". The idiot Democrats fell for it too.

 

[bilby]

Sorry but you are mistaken about my travels in The US, about my personal connections —friends and family members with whom I maintain good, ongoing relationships. Or that living some place for years and being related to a good number of the people gives one a good deal of insight that tourists never experience.

So no: my information does not come from the same place yours does. Mine comes from personal experience and years spent living in quite aduverse cross setion of the US.

There is a big difference between experience and understanding; And contrary to popular belief, experience is not necessary for, and nor is it superior to, understanding.

Your dismissal of my commentary is justified only by your unreasonable and tribalistic epistemology. I make no claim about your knowledge, other than that you are in no position to assume that it is greater than mine, solely on the basis of my lack of direct experience. Despite your emotional attachment to the belief that it must be.

Essentially you are engaged in a variant of the appeal to authority fallacy, with those who live in the USA being cast in the role of authorities. Being a haddock doesn't make one an authority on fisheries policy, and not being a haddock certainly isn't grounds to dismiss a person's opinion on the topic.

By your reasoning, I am as great an expert on Australian politics as you are because I’ve seen all of the Crocadile Dundee movies, know who Nicole Kidman is and used to have neighbors who were from Australia.

OK, so now you are engaged in a strawman fallacy. I do not claim to be an expert on the USA on the basis of a few movies and acquaintances.

Nor do I claim to be in a position to assess your level of expertise regarding my country. Yet you are using a series of logical fallacies to try to make that claim about me - a claim that the slightest rational thought on your part would show to be false.

Please, feel free to stop emoting and start thinking at any point.

 

[RavenSky]

gun nuts

Thanks for the info. I wasn't aware of them.

A guy I know has put some of the 3% stuff on his Facebook feed. Well, he did when Obama was President. He bought into the narrative that Obama was somehow going to suspend the Constitution, and had built up an arsenal of weapons for the impending showdown with the government when Barack "Oh my god his middle name is HUSSEIN" Obama refused to step down and subsequently declared a Marxist/Muslim dictatorship.

Unsurprisingly, his preparations for a civil war have been put on the back burner since Obama stepped down peacefully. If I remember correctly, he sold off his previous Clinton-era stockpile of weapons during the Bush administration, only to build the arsenal again when the Kenyan Usurper took over. I don't know how many of his guns he's sold in the past year, but I suspect it may be a few.

And I'll bet he wonders why he doesn't have much money...

 

[Toni]

H

Please, feel free to stop emoting and start thinking at any point.

Apres vous, s’il vous plait.

It is good to know that you acknowledge that you are not an expert on American politics.

 

[RavenSky]

I guess I'll just put this here.

The NRA Really Wants You To Stop Making Fun Of Trump Now, OK?

The Twitter responses...

 

[Toni]

so why do they feel democrats have abandoned them, aside from just stupidly buying into propaganda?

Between the RNC and the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service, the media they receive is overwhelmingly dominated by right-wing propaganda. You can't completely blame them for swallowing it, since it's almost all they have access to.

It's not North Korea. There is access to exactly the same national news as you have.

There are also different societal pressures that are felt in every aspect of their lives--and yours.

And there are honest differences of opinion about the best approach to deal with all aspects of society. The ones that you disagree with are not necessarily rooted in ignorance and bigotry any more than yours are.

Unless and until we can get to the point where we actually listen to each other--even when we disagree, vehemently-- we all lose.

 

[jonatha]

Unless and until we can get to the point where we actually listen to each other--even when we disagree, vehemently-- we all lose.

And after I listen to the report that there's a child molestation ring in the basement of a pizzeria that's built on a concrete slab, what's next?

 

[Rhea]

Yeah, it is amazing that I understand them instead of merely dismissing them all as inbred racists.

I understand many of them to be inbred racists. That's not a dismissal, it's just an observation that successfully allows their behaviour to be predicted.

That's bigotry at best, racism at worst. It is the contempt by the progressives towards the rural that caused the rural to reject the progressives. You are a symptom of why they didn't vote the way you wanted them to.

What does your worldview do about tose of us who are rural progressives?
You never really answered my points; you’re acting as if I never made them. I’m not making fun of rural people for being rural. I am rural. I live here.

But let’s not fool ourselves about why these rural trump voters are voting against their self interest for Trump. They say, flat out, loudly and repeatedly, that they love how he talks about what he’s going to do to the brown people. Like you.. They say they voted for him for reasons A, B, C and D. ANd he’s filed on A, B, and C, but he’s don’e great at insulting the people they want insulted.

This whole thing reminds me of a classmate I had in college from Cameroon. He asked me (not knowing I was atheist,). “I don’t understand why women can be christians. How can you follow that as a woman? That man, Jesus, he don’ like women - you know that, right?”

This is like that. Why you rural people like Trump? He despises you! The only thing he shares with you is the comments you make about blacks and hispanics and gays. I guess that’s ennough though, right?