Vote suppression -- now we have some evidence of the effects

[whichphilosophy]

It did. Why do liberals view black people as helpless children? Does it give them a sense of moral superiority? Incredible condescension.

No, this is the straw man I mentioned earlier. Let me walk you through it. Thus far, you have indicated that "liberals" think all people of color are stupid and as helpless as children. Do you see where someone has said as much? I don't. It's certainly not my view. As a matter of fact, I'm white, and I am neither stupid nor helpless, nevertheless I still find renewing ID (not even establishing ID which is much more difficult) to be a bit of a stretch for me, financially. If someone speaks of lowering the challenges that present themselves to the poor in order to help them establish ID's or otherwise make voting easier for me, I do not think that it's a bunch of people guilty of lowering their expectations with respect to what I can and can not do, or how smart I am, or what that says about my character. It's simply an acknowledgement of my situation.

See, you didn't approach this thread with good arguments for voter ID, or to gather information, or even to facilitate a discussion on the merits or lack thereof for voter ID, you jumped in with this huge broad brush attacking "liberals" for being racist. None of this has anything to do with whether voter ID is a good idea or not. In fact, it has no bearing on this discussion at all unless someone here says that people of color are stupid or lack typical adult behavior necessary to establish the ID necessary to vote, should that become or remain, law. What you are doing is maligning the motives of people that are against having voter ID necessary to vote. Now what's that called when you do not address the actual arguments made but instead criticize the motives of the person that made the argument?

Let's Google that shit!

Oh look, first entry! Nailed it!

Are you saying that asking a voter to identify who is, constitutes some kind of wrong?


I don't find any unreasonable laws per

https://ballotpedia.org/Voter_identification_laws_by_state

34 states have introduced online registration
https://ballotpedia.org/Voter_identification_laws_by_state#Details_by_state


The individual states have the ability to make voter registration easier.

A US citizen should not drive with no driving licence and likewise should have identification to vote.

https://ballotpedia.org/Online_voter_registration
If you have ever lived in a communist country you will realize how important up to date ID is.

 

[ZiprHead]

If you have ever lived in a communist country you will realize how important up to date ID is.

The irony of this statement is astounding.

 

[whichphilosophy]

If you have ever lived in a communist country you will realize how important up to date ID is.

The irony of this statement is astounding.

The irony is the bleating in the US originates from the ultra-left.

 

[braces_for_impact]

If you have ever lived in a communist country you will realize how important up to date ID is.

The irony of this statement is astounding.

Right?!

 

[LordKiran]

It disenfranchises people who don't have any officially accepted ID. This is not a class of voter whose distribution is uniform across the political spectrum, so the result is to bias the results in favour of the parties and candidates whose supporters are most likely to have an accepted ID.

This is particularly problematic in the US south, but even in other parts of the country it is mainly black people who are unable to vote as a result of these rules; and the detailed implementation of these rules - which forms of ID are and are not considered acceptable - makes very clear that the unstated purpose is to minimise the vote amongst that section of the population.

Or perhaps it's purely coincidental that the effect of rules imposed just happens to burden black people more than it does whites. Just like it's purely coincidental that there are far fewer voting places in black dominated districts, leading to long lines and suppressed turnout.

It's amazing how many rules that have nothing to do with race turn out to completely coincidentally disfavour blacks in the US. If the people making the rules weren't so quick to assure us that it's all purely coincidental, it could almost be mistaken for systemic racism.

It's impossible for a legal citizen not to have a legal ID and stupid not to keep it up to date. Racism has nothing to with it. Idiocy does. The article mentions one person who had out of date ID and some immediate relatives who appear just as stupid. The subject lady let it slip so whose fault is that.

I'm a legal citizen, I don't have an ID. You have some strange ideas about our country.

Firstly we don't have a national ID like most places. Just get that out of the way right now. Each state issues its own identification which pulls double duty as a driver's license which the licensee is required to pay a substantial amount of money for in cash.

Did you know at one point in our countries' history, paying a fee was one of the first steps a poor man had to make in order to vote? In that regard, this is no different. In order to utilize your constitutional right to vote, you have to pay the state for a different service you may not even be able to afford.

 

[ZiprHead]

The irony of this statement is astounding.

The irony is the bleating in the US originates from the ultra-left.

 

[SimpleDon]

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/10/voter-suppression-wisconsin-election-2016/

and it's pretty damning. Tens of thousands of people kept away from the polls.

What is wrong with voters bringing some kind of ID to vote?

Why impose needless requirements that prevent so many people from voting?

 

[OLDMAN]

Given the results of the last US election, not only should voter ID be required...but maybe a IQ test as well.

 

[Copernicus]

What is wrong with voters bringing some kind of ID to vote?

Why impose needless requirements that prevent so many people from voting?

They know why. That's why they want these laws in place. It is to help them win elections. Occasionally, there is a Republican official who blurts out the truth from time to time, but most of them just practice repeating their talking points and pretending that there is some principled reason for voter suppression tactics.

 

[sharon45]

Why impose needless requirements that prevent so many people from voting?

They know why. That's why they want these laws in place. It is to help them win elections. Occasionally, there is a Republican official who blurts out the truth from time to time, but most of them just practice repeating their talking points and pretending that there is some principled reason for voter suppression tactics.

Both sides have their prepared talking points. Fire with fire.

 

[laughing dog]

They know why. That's why they want these laws in place. It is to help them win elections. Occasionally, there is a Republican official who blurts out the truth from time to time, but most of them just practice repeating their talking points and pretending that there is some principled reason for voter suppression tactics.

Both sides have their prepared talking points. Fire with fire.

What does that have to do with voter suppression efforts?

 

[fromderinside]

When you find voter fraud you may try again on that they did we did.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Are you saying that asking a voter to identify who is, constitutes some kind of wrong?


I don't find any unreasonable laws per

https://ballotpedia.org/Voter_identification_laws_by_state

34 states have introduced online registration
https://ballotpedia.org/Voter_identification_laws_by_state#Details_by_state


The individual states have the ability to make voter registration easier.

A US citizen should not drive with no driving licence and likewise should have identification to vote.

https://ballotpedia.org/Online_voter_registration
If you have ever lived in a communist country you will realize how important up to date ID is.

The thing is voter ID requirement impose a cost to voting. It's a cost that's generally irrelevant at the middle class and above, but for the poor it can matter. Voter ID laws are about suppressing the poor vote. Virtually every case of vote fraud that's caught has nothing to do with ID and there's nothing done about the biggest cause of fraudulent voting--absentee ballots. The problem isn't bogus registrations (those are generally caught) but absentee voting ballots of the dead or incapacitated.

When all the effort goes to a tiny aspect of the issue figure it's really about something else.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Both sides have their prepared talking points. Fire with fire.

What does that have to do with voter suppression efforts?

Providing ID at a polling booth doesn't equate with voter suppression.

- - - Updated - - -

Are you saying that asking a voter to identify who is, constitutes some kind of wrong?


I don't find any unreasonable laws per

https://ballotpedia.org/Voter_identification_laws_by_state

34 states have introduced online registration
https://ballotpedia.org/Voter_identification_laws_by_state#Details_by_state


The individual states have the ability to make voter registration easier.

A US citizen should not drive with no driving licence and likewise should have identification to vote.

https://ballotpedia.org/Online_voter_registration
If you have ever lived in a communist country you will realize how important up to date ID is.

The thing is voter ID requirement impose a cost to voting. It's a cost that's generally irrelevant at the middle class and above, but for the poor it can matter. Voter ID laws are about suppressing the poor vote. Virtually every case of vote fraud that's caught has nothing to do with ID and there's nothing done about the biggest cause of fraudulent voting--absentee ballots. The problem isn't bogus registrations (those are generally caught) but absentee voting ballots of the dead or incapacitated.

When all the effort goes to a tiny aspect of the issue figure it's really about something else.

There shouldn't be a charge at the polling booth as this is or should be covered by taxes

 

[Copernicus]

They know why. That's why they want these laws in place. It is to help them win elections. Occasionally, there is a Republican official who blurts out the truth from time to time, but most of them just practice repeating their talking points and pretending that there is some principled reason for voter suppression tactics.

Both sides have their prepared talking points. Fire with fire.

It isn't the talking points that bothers me, but the pretense of principle. Voter suppression laws are a purely partisan tactic. Democrats have used gerrymandering and other techniques to gain unfair advantage also, and it wasn't right when they did it. Republicans are the main ones guilty of this today. Let's not engage in false equivalences. The practice is wrong no matter who uses it.

 

[fromderinside]

As someone wrote above all voter suppression laws are poll tax laws which are illegal.

 

[ZiprHead]

There shouldn't be a charge at the polling booth as this is or should be covered by taxes

You really should learn about WTF you're talking about before you speak.

 

[Trausti]

Are you saying that asking a voter to identify who is, constitutes some kind of wrong?


I don't find any unreasonable laws per

https://ballotpedia.org/Voter_identification_laws_by_state

34 states have introduced online registration
https://ballotpedia.org/Voter_identification_laws_by_state#Details_by_state


The individual states have the ability to make voter registration easier.

A US citizen should not drive with no driving licence and likewise should have identification to vote.

https://ballotpedia.org/Online_voter_registration
If you have ever lived in a communist country you will realize how important up to date ID is.

The thing is voter ID requirement impose a cost to voting. It's a cost that's generally irrelevant at the middle class and above, but for the poor it can matter. Voter ID laws are about suppressing the poor vote. Virtually every case of vote fraud that's caught has nothing to do with ID and there's nothing done about the biggest cause of fraudulent voting--absentee ballots. The problem isn't bogus registrations (those are generally caught) but absentee voting ballots of the dead or incapacitated.

When all the effort goes to a tiny aspect of the issue figure it's really about something else.

You can get a state ID for free. This notion that ID laws are voter suppression is the disingenuous elevating of a non-issue so a political faction can morally grandstand. That's it. ID is necessary for so many things in life, that to say that it's fine for all those other things but not to verify that a voter is who they say they are is just ridiculous. And why it is that black people let liberals use them as ignorant pawns I simply don't understand.

 

[laughing dog]

You can get a state ID for free.

That depends where you live. In Mn, there is a fee ( https://www.dmv.org/mn-minnesota/id-cards.php ). But even if the ID may have no price. But getting to a location where one can get an ID is not costless. And the hassles in getting a replacement ID are not costless. So, the notion that ID cards are free is not based on reality.

In post #14, I asked you a specific question. I will repeat it here.

This is from the start of the OP article. After you have read it, do you think this woman should have been effectively disenfranchised given the specifics of her situation?

You can’t say Andrea Anthony didn’t try. A 37-year-old African American woman with an infectious smile, Anthony had voted in every major election since she was 18. On November 8, 2016, she went to the Clinton Rose Senior Center, her polling site on the predominantly black north side of Milwaukee, to cast a ballot for Hillary Clinton. “Voting is important to me because I know I have a little, teeny, tiny voice, but that is a way for it to be heard,” she said. “Even though it’s one vote, I feel it needs to count.”

She’d lost her driver’s license a few days earlier, but she came prepared with an expired Wisconsin state ID and proof of residency. A poll worker confirmed she was registered to vote at her current address. But this was Wisconsin’s first major election that required voters—even those who were already registered—to present a current driver’s license, passport, or state or military ID to cast a ballot. Anthony couldn’t, and so she wasn’t able to vote.

The poll worker gave her a provisional ballot instead. It would be counted only if she went to the Department of Motor Vehicles to get a new ID and then to the city clerk’s office to confirm her vote, all within 72 hours of Election Day. But Anthony couldn’t take time off from her job as an administrative assistant at a housing management company, and she had five kids and two grandkids to look after. For the first time in her life, her vote wasn’t counted.

 

[sharon45]

Both sides have their prepared talking points. Fire with fire.

What does that have to do with voter suppression efforts?

Are you saying that the right doesn't also talk about voter suppression efforts leveled against them?