Presidential vapor in Hiroshima....

[ZiprHead]

War does not justify anything.

Justification would be something like self defense. If there was no other choice.

So what do you do when the defense has failed and the Japanese are committing atrocities upon your allies such as this.:
(warning-extremely graphic)

Show

I've been on the fence about posting photos of the atrocities the Japanese were committing upon the Chinese. Millions were killed in this manner and worse. Apparently some here think everything would have been sunshine and lollipops if the US had just stayed out of the fight.

These were people whom had already been defeated. The Japanese felt that, because the Chinese didn't put up a better fight, they had no honor and therefore deserved no mercy. I don't know if this attitude from some here comes from a lack of knowledge of history or just an unreasonable absolutist perspective. I hope you find those photographs disgusting because I find such attitudes almost as disgusting.

 

[Bronzeage]

These photos show why Japan was reluctant to surrender, even as the situation became hopeless. This is what they expected when the Allies came ashore.

 

[untermensche]

War does not justify anything.
Justification would be something like self defense. If there was no other choice.

So what do you do when the defense has failed and the Japanese are committing atrocities upon your allies such as this.:

What do I do?

What do nations do?

They care about it if it is seen to be in their interest to care about it. Or if they think not caring about it might harm them in some way.

Nations do not operate by sympathy or empathy. They commit and ignore atrocities at will. At least the powerful ones do. The US has ignored Israeli atrocities and oppression for decades. It has actually prevented the UN from doing anything about them.

They operate under pure self interest.

 

[ZiprHead]

In what way did the Japanese care?

What did the US get by freeing China from the grip of the Japanese?

 

[untermensche]

In what way did the Japanese care?

What did the US get by freeing China from the grip of the Japanese?

What way did the Japanese care about what? They were certainly looking out for their own self-interests.

The US sought to weaken Japan by depriving it of conquests. To prevent it from becoming a rival.

The US had it's own eyes on China as well.

 

[ZiprHead]

Moving the goal posts.

Again - What did the US get by freeing China from the grip of the Japanese?

 

[untermensche]

Moving the goal posts.

Again - What did the US get by freeing China from the grip of the Japanese?

The US sought to weaken Japan.

China was just a pawn in the matter.

 

[ZiprHead]

Why did the US want to weaken Japan? We had good relations and trade with Japan prior to their war with China.

 

[untermensche]

Why did the US want to weaken Japan? We had good relations and trade with Japan prior to their war with China.

It is one thing to trade.

It is another to become powerful and threaten US expansionism.

At the time the US had the Philippines (talk about atrocities) and looked to expand it's own empire.

 

[ZiprHead]

Expand its own empire into Japan, or where?

How did Japan threaten US expansionism?

You're all over the map here.

Maybe you should take a little time off, have a cup of tea, bone up on some history, and come back with a little more than just blatant statements with no facts to back them up.

It's my bed time. I'll see you tomorrow. Have a good night.

 

[untermensche]

Expand its own empire into Japan, or where?

How did Japan threaten US expansionism?

You're all over the map here.

Maybe you should take a little time off, have a cup of tea, bone up on some history, and come back with a little more than just blatant statements with no facts to back them up.

It's my bed time. I'll see you tomorrow. Have a good night.

How does a nation becoming powerful and expanding prevent another nation from expanding?

Please!

It is too self evident to have to explain. No wonder to you I am all over the place.

You are not in the real world.

And if the US cared so much about atrocities why did it carry out so many in the Philippines?

What the hell was the US doing in the Philippines if it was not an expansionist imperial power?

 

[Ford]

You're all over the map here.

Maybe you should take a little time off, have a cup of tea, bone up on some history, and come back with a little more than just blatant statements with no facts to back them up.

He's operating from a simple premise: USA bad, Japan helpless victim of US imperialism.

Everything else is just a sad attempt to justify said premise.

 

[untermensche]

You're all over the map here.

Maybe you should take a little time off, have a cup of tea, bone up on some history, and come back with a little more than just blatant statements with no facts to back them up.

He's operating from a simple premise: USA bad, Japan helpless victim of US imperialism.

Everything else is just a sad attempt to justify said premise.

That's insane.

I am operating under what I have said I am operating under.

Nations do things out of their perceived self interests.

All of them.

Including the US.

But some nations are highly expansionist.

Like the US having the Philippines as a colony.

 

[Ford]

He's operating from a simple premise: USA bad, Japan helpless victim of US imperialism.

Everything else is just a sad attempt to justify said premise.

That's insane.

I am operating under what I have said I am operating under.

Nations do things out of their perceived self interests.

All of them.

Including the US.

But the US is always bad for doing so in your opinion...other nations? Not so much.

But some nations are highly expansionist.

Like the US having the Philippines as a colony.

Well thank goodness Japan never expanded, huh?

 

[untermensche]

But the US is always bad for doing so in your opinion...other nations? Not so much.

Was the US bad for all the atrocities it committed in the Philippines to turn it into an obedient colony?

Was it bad for genocide in Vietnam and Cambodia and Laos?

Has it ever done anything wrong?

 

[Ford]

But the US is always bad for doing so in your opinion...other nations? Not so much.

Was the US bad for all the atrocities it committed in the Philippines to turn it into an obedient colony?

Was it bad for genocide in Vietnam and Cambodia and Laos?

Has it ever done anything wrong?

Oh, that's right. In addition to your willful ignorance of Japan's well-documented war crimes, you also think Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos are all just hapless victims of US imperialism, and didn't do anything wrong on their own.

But why stop there? You're on a roll!


Please tell me how the millions who died in China under Mao were all actually killed by the evil US imperialists, and how North Korea's mad murderous regime is actually a just and kind society wrongfully blamed for US-implemented genocide.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Al Jazeera used to be an independent source. That's history, though, now it's under control of the Islamists.

- - - Updated - - -

Japan behaves in a friendly fashion towards us. Castro's Cuba went out of it's way to keep antagonizing us--the embargo gave him a convenient scapegoat to blame Cuba's economic problems on.

What did Cuba do to antagonize the Americans other than not get rid of Castro? The confrontation with Russia ended a long time ago. The purpose of the blockade was to harm Cuba's economy so no one needs to find any scapegoats.

There have been many things. Off the top of my head, his response to the boat lift was to open the prisons and send the prisoners to the US. That caused a lot of trouble for Florida.

Your are possibly referring to when George W Bush said any Cuban who sets sail on US soil may claim the right to stay there. So Castro filled two boats of criminals, drug addicts, prostitutes AIDs sufferers and dumped them off the coast of Florida. Even the anti-Castro businessmen I was talking to in Venezuela a few years ago had a good laugh about it.

There is also the senseless planting of a bomb inside a Cuban civilian airliner in 1976 but CIA operatives.
http://morallowground.com/2012/10/06/on-this-day-1976-the-bombing-of-cubana-airlines-flight-455/

Hernán Ricardo and Freddy Lugo, former Venezuelan agents, were arrested in Trinidad and Tobago. They confessed to the bombing and fingered two Cubans, Orlando Bosch and former CIA agent Luis Posada Carriles, as the masterminds behind the terror attack. Declassified CIA documents report Posada stating that “we are going to blow up a Cuban airliner… Orlando has the details.” All four men were jailed in Venezuela but Bosch and Posada managed to escape justice; literally so in the case of Posada, who fled from prison while awaiting trial for his role in the airliner bombing.

Where did these two terrorists eventually end up? Right here in the United States. But they weren’t here to face trial for orchestrating the attack that killed 73 innocent people. Incredibly, Bosch and Posada were welcomed as heroes upon entering the United States. President George H.W. Bush even granted Bosch political asylum

and

Beginning in 1959, US-based aircraft began bombing runs over Cuban sugar plantations, killing innocent civilians and causing widespread property damage. Declassified documents reveal how the CIA conspired with Chicago mafia boss Momo Salvatore, Al Capone’s successor, to assassinate Castro.

After his election, President John F. Kennedy wanted to unleash “the terrors of the earth” upon Castro’s Cuba. In 1961, a group of US-armed, CIA-trained Cuban exiles launched the ill-fated Bay of Pigs invasion. Among the planners of the doomed attack was Luis Posada Carriles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cubana_de_Aviación_Flight_455

 

[whichphilosophy]

In what way did the Japanese care?

What did the US get by freeing China from the grip of the Japanese?

The allies didn't actually free the Chinese from the Japanese so that the allies could then continue their looting. The Russians invaded Manchuria just before the end of the war and Mao made it not too safe for any Western to even think about setting foot in the place.

 

[whichphilosophy]

War does not justify anything.

Justification would be something like self defense. If there was no other choice.

So what do you do when the defense has failed and the Japanese are committing atrocities upon your allies such as this.:
(warning-extremely graphic)

Show

View attachment 7010
View attachment 7011
View attachment 7012
View attachment 7013

I've been on the fence about posting photos of the atrocities the Japanese were committing upon the Chinese. Millions were killed in this manner and worse. Apparently some here think everything would have been sunshine and lollipops if the US had just stayed out of the fight.

These were people whom had already been defeated. The Japanese felt that, because the Chinese didn't put up a better fight, they had no honor and therefore deserved no mercy. I don't know if this attitude from some here comes from a lack of knowledge of history or just an unreasonable absolutist perspective. I hope you find those photographs disgusting because I find such attitudes almost as disgusting.

The atrocities the Japanese committed are beyond imagination, but most of the criminals including Hirohito got of Scott free. The killing of Japanese Civilians, Chinese and Korean labour conscripts as well as hundreds of allied prisoners located in Nagasaki were senseless given that the Japanese had been making peace attempts (in the usual fashion) several months earlier to the US testing its A bombs.

Further, the excuse that Japan wanted conditions is even more enfeebled when the Americans actually granted the Japanese key conditions anyway.

 

[whichphilosophy]

That's insane.

I am operating under what I have said I am operating under.

Nations do things out of their perceived self interests.

All of them.

Including the US.

But the US is always bad for doing so in your opinion...other nations? Not so much.

But some nations are highly expansionist.

Like the US having the Philippines as a colony.

Well thank goodness Japan never expanded, huh?

The British didn't like the Japanese looting its colonies which also affected American interests. Of course the US had to go to war because Japan started it but this could have been ended a few months earlier without use of the A Bomb. The allies didn't follow up on the Japanese peace feelers (standard in any wars)

Hopefully the US today may not consider such barbaric actions against a barbaric force which ended up killing hundreds of thousands of civilians. However a lot of its other foreign policy decisions since WWII have nonetheless been destructive in other ways.