The Asian Advantage

[nightwyrm]

This recent article seems relevant: http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/03/opinions/lee-immigration-ethnic-capital/

One factor may be that Asian cultures place a huge emphasis on formal education. Formal education is seen as the path to success in life. Doing well in school and in "acceptable" hobbies (eg. music instruments, traditional art etc.) are considered paramount, even at the expense of other childhood/teenage developments. Asian parents are really picky and demanding about the education their kids are getting and are often very involved. Also, all that time spent studying and going to tutoring to get into college means less time for kids to get into trouble. Of course, this means not going to college is pretty much a sin certain Asian families.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

This recent article seems relevant: http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/03/opinions/lee-immigration-ethnic-capital/

One factor may be that Asian cultures place a huge emphasis on formal education. Formal education is seen as the path to success in life. Doing well in school and in "acceptable" hobbies (eg. music instruments, traditional art etc.) are considered paramount, even at the expense of other childhood/teenage developments. Asian parents are really picky and demanding about the education their kids are getting and are often very involved. Also, all that time spent studying and going to tutoring to get into college means less time for kids to get into trouble. Of course, this means not going to college is pretty much a sin certain Asian families.

Definitely. I see quite a push for education over there, but there's too much focus on rote learning vs creative thought.

 

[nightwyrm]

This recent article seems relevant: http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/03/opinions/lee-immigration-ethnic-capital/

One factor may be that Asian cultures place a huge emphasis on formal education. Formal education is seen as the path to success in life. Doing well in school and in "acceptable" hobbies (eg. music instruments, traditional art etc.) are considered paramount, even at the expense of other childhood/teenage developments. Asian parents are really picky and demanding about the education their kids are getting and are often very involved. Also, all that time spent studying and going to tutoring to get into college means less time for kids to get into trouble. Of course, this means not going to college is pretty much a sin certain Asian families.

Definitely. I see quite a push for education over there, but there's too much focus on rote learning vs creative thought.

But the truth of the matter is that rote learning (or pattern recognition as some might call it) is probably good enough to get you good enough grades to get into college. And let's be honest, most jobs, especially at the entry level, aren't going to require the worker to be super creative. You're more likely be trained to follow a set of procedure that will apply to most of the situations you encounter. If you're an accountant, being creative is definitely discouraged.

 

[JonA]

Actually, I'm not sure it's purely culture. I'm thinking of China: They had a long period of relative peace and a society where you could advance based on intelligence. That would tend to select for intelligence. On the other hand you have places like Cambodia where an awful lot of the intelligent people were executed. That would select for stupidity.

What you just described there is culture.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Diet and exercise.

 

[Source]

Its culture. Education is very important in Asian culture.

South Korea has some of the best academic results in the world but it comes from 16 hour school days, school on a Saturday, extra tuition almost every day, etc.

Also see László Polgár and what he achieved with his children.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/László_Polgár

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Actually, I'm not sure it's purely culture. I'm thinking of China: They had a long period of relative peace and a society where you could advance based on intelligence. That would tend to select for intelligence. On the other hand you have places like Cambodia where an awful lot of the intelligent people were executed. That would select for stupidity.

What you just described there is culture.

You can't separate culture from DNA. Culture is the macro-expression of group DNA.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Definitely. I see quite a push for education over there, but there's too much focus on rote learning vs creative thought.

But the truth of the matter is that rote learning (or pattern recognition as some might call it) is probably good enough to get you good enough grades to get into college. And let's be honest, most jobs, especially at the entry level, aren't going to require the worker to be super creative. You're more likely be trained to follow a set of procedure that will apply to most of the situations you encounter. If you're an accountant, being creative is definitely discouraged.

Yeah, for most jobs creativity isn't required. However, a business run by such people isn't going to be all that innovative. It's still to a large degree the US invents, the rest of the world runs with the idea.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Actually, I'm not sure it's purely culture. I'm thinking of China: They had a long period of relative peace and a society where you could advance based on intelligence. That would tend to select for intelligence. On the other hand you have places like Cambodia where an awful lot of the intelligent people were executed. That would select for stupidity.

What you just described there is culture.

No--I'm not talking about ideas passed from parent to child, but rather how intelligence fares in reproductive success. China has undergone forces that would favor passing on genes for intelligence, Cambodia has undergone an event that removed a lot of intelligent genes from the gene pool. In both cases I would expect to see a change in intelligence of the population but I don't know if it's big enough to measure.

- - - Updated - - -

What you just described there is culture.

You can't separate culture from DNA. Culture is the macro-expression of group DNA.

No. Culture is ideas. There is no question that places like China and Korea have cultural factors favoring learning.

 

[Trausti]

What you just described there is culture.

You can't separate culture from DNA. Culture is the macro-expression of group DNA.

No. Culture is ideas. There is no question that places like China and Korea have cultural factors favoring learning.

Culture is also behavior. That's genetic.

 

[maxparrish]

East asians of mongoloid descent tend to perform significantly better than other large racial/ethnic groups on mathematical and visuospatial reasoning tests, which are part of their higher IQ scores. And it is that "braininess" that has translated to higher earnings for those individuals, as well contributing to rapid economic growth in their countries of origin. First Japan then Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea, Hong Kong and now China have demonstrated their ability in STEM and other manufacturing at a level that less gifted Africa and Latin America have not (and is largely incapable of)

And their performance is primarily do to their population's innate abilities, not their education systems. Japan does require more schooling and homework, but the other east asian countries have far less rigorous systems than that of the Japanese (Hong Kong, for example, is modeled on the British system). For example in an ETS international survey of 13 year olds, Koreans (the only East Asians) scored first in mathematics compared to 8 other nations, the American's last. And even by 5 years of age, Japanese far exceed American children in mathematical ability. In a study 20 years ago, using Raven Progressive Matrices, Chinese IQ scored an average of 110, while Malays averaged 96 (British children are 100). The Cattell Culture Fair test around the same time period showed that Chinese students (in China) average an IQ of 107, while Americans had an average of 100 for students of the same age.

If, as it is often thought, that IQ measurements are partially affected by the environment (25 to 50 percent) then the Chinese scores should show even greater superiority as their country becomes more urban and modern.

 

[Axulus]

Steven Pinker's talk: Jews, genes and intelligence is a must watch to have a more educated understanding on this topic of intelligence and the genetic and cultural influences.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Beqtt42iDW8

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

East asians of mongoloid descent tend to perform significantly better than other large racial/ethnic groups on mathematical and visuospatial reasoning tests, which are part of their higher IQ scores. And it is that "braininess" that has translated to higher earnings for those individuals, as well contributing to rapid economic growth in their countries of origin. First Japan then Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea, Hong Kong and now China have demonstrated their ability in STEM and other manufacturing at a level that less gifted Africa and Latin America have not (and is largely incapable of)

And their performance is primarily do to their population's innate abilities, not their education systems. Japan does require more schooling and homework, but the other east asian countries have far less rigorous systems than that of the Japanese (Hong Kong, for example, is modeled on the British system). For example in an ETS international survey of 13 year olds, Koreans (the only East Asians) scored first in mathematics compared to 8 other nations, the American's last. And even by 5 years of age, Japanese far exceed American children in mathematical ability. In a study 20 years ago, using Raven Progressive Matrices, Chinese IQ scored an average of 110, while Malays averaged 96 (British children are 100). The Cattell Culture Fair test around the same time period showed that Chinese students (in China) average an IQ of 107, while Americans had an average of 100 for students of the same age.

If, as it is often thought, that IQ measurements are partially affected by the environment (25 to 50 percent) then the Chinese scores should show even greater superiority as their country becomes more urban and modern.

The key word is environment. Not all cultures inhabit the same environments. Ultimately, DNA is an expression of local environment. There would be blind humans with other sensory enhancements if there were a group of humans who dwelt only in the darkness of caves. DNA between humans is as different as eye color, height, strength, etc. These are all environmentally selected for. We're just like dogs, just not as inbred for traits. It's politically correct to pretend we all have the same talents and abilities just waiting to be expressed, but we don't. That's a brute fact of nature.

 

[arkirk]

East asians of mongoloid descent tend to perform significantly better than other large racial/ethnic groups on mathematical and visuospatial reasoning tests, which are part of their higher IQ scores. And it is that "braininess" that has translated to higher earnings for those individuals, as well contributing to rapid economic growth in their countries of origin. First Japan then Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea, Hong Kong and now China have demonstrated their ability in STEM and other manufacturing at a level that less gifted Africa and Latin America have not (and is largely incapable of)

And their performance is primarily do to their population's innate abilities, not their education systems. Japan does require more schooling and homework, but the other east asian countries have far less rigorous systems than that of the Japanese (Hong Kong, for example, is modeled on the British system). For example in an ETS international survey of 13 year olds, Koreans (the only East Asians) scored first in mathematics compared to 8 other nations, the American's last. And even by 5 years of age, Japanese far exceed American children in mathematical ability. In a study 20 years ago, using Raven Progressive Matrices, Chinese IQ scored an average of 110, while Malays averaged 96 (British children are 100). The Cattell Culture Fair test around the same time period showed that Chinese students (in China) average an IQ of 107, while Americans had an average of 100 for students of the same age.

If, as it is often thought, that IQ measurements are partially affected by the environment (25 to 50 percent) then the Chinese scores should show even greater superiority as their country becomes more urban and modern.

The key word is environment. Not all cultures inhabit the same environments. Ultimately, DNA is an expression of local environment. There would be blind humans with other sensory enhancements if there were a group of humans who dwelt only in the darkness of caves. DNA between humans is as different as eye color, height, strength, etc. These are all environmentally selected for. We're just like dogs, just not as inbred for traits. It's politically correct to pretend we all have the same talents and abilities just waiting to be expressed, but we don't. That's a brute fact of nature.

Isn't it really just a matter of ability to comply with and pass the courses at a specific type of school that you have in mind? You think there is something called intelligence when it is really simply a measure of a brain to function in a specific manner you call intelligence. When in fact....other brains are more attuned to passing other sorts of tests. Nobody needs to pretend that brains are all equal. That is not what it is all about. What we missing is that all these people with their different brains should have EQUAL HUMAN RIGHTS and not get caught up in false meritocratic bullshit. Merit only means compliance with a certain set of parameters and those are SOCIALLY DETERMINED.

 

[JonA]

Is there any evidence of some sort of genetic difference between Asians and non-Asians to account for the 'innate' intelligence people keep talking about?

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Steven Pinker's talk: Jews, genes and intelligence is a must watch to have a more educated understanding on this topic of intelligence and the genetic and cultural influences.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Beqtt42iDW8

It was not easy for me to grasp all he was saying but it seems he is saying the difference is genetic and that it has been selected for.

 

[maxparrish]

Is there any evidence of some sort of genetic difference between Asians and non-Asians to account for the 'innate' intelligence people keep talking about?

If you mean, have they found the set of genes responsible for differing "g" in individuals, then no, they have not. However their is overwhelming evidence to the heritability of IQ, and that different ethnic and racial populations have different average IQ scores due to those genes.

 

[Source]

Motivation.

IQ is as much a measure of MOTIVATION as intelligence. This University of Pennsylvania study found this- http://www.pnas.org/content/108/19/7716

Work ethic, self discipline, family support and encouragement, desire, these are all more important.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/n...ivation-as-well-as-intelligence/#.Vf_OIdJVikp

http://bigthink.com/artful-choice/i...he-intelligence-and-more-about-the-incentives

I don't know of any employer who looks at IQ tests (or even exam results) when deciding who to employ. They look at motivation, work ethic and will this person work in a harmonious way.

Employers in the UK prefer to take on immigrants because they have such a great work ethic.

If anyone doubts that Jews or Asians have a very strong work ethic then go and live in Japan or South Korea.

I believe that any individual living in the west, with an average or even below average IQ, can become wealthy if they are prepared to put in 16 hours days, work hard on their business, take risks, etc.

Its not rocket science to make some money living in a modern industrial society. Pretty much anyone could do it. Most people are not motivated to do it, they are happy with their lot.

Asians and Jews have strong family pressure to do it and an environment which fosters it.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Motivation.

IQ is as much a measure of MOTIVATION as intelligence. This University of Pennsylvania study found this- http://www.pnas.org/content/108/19/7716

Work ethic, self discipline, family support and encouragement, desire, these are all more important.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/n...ivation-as-well-as-intelligence/#.Vf_OIdJVikp

http://bigthink.com/artful-choice/i...he-intelligence-and-more-about-the-incentives

I don't know of any employer who looks at IQ tests (or even exam results) when deciding who to employ. They look at motivation, work ethic and will this person work in a harmonious way.

Employers in the UK prefer to take on immigrants because they have such a great work ethic.

If anyone doubts that Jews or Asians have a very strong work ethic then go and live in Japan or South Korea.

I believe that any individual living in the west, with an average or even below average IQ, can become wealthy if they are prepared to put in 16 hours days, work hard on their business, take risks, etc.

Its not rocket science to make some money living in a modern industrial society. Pretty much anyone could do it. Most people are not motivated to do it, they are happy with their lot.

Asians and Jews have strong family pressure to do it and an environment which fosters it.

And genetic inheritance directs for all those behaviors, same as genetic inheritance directs for you being 6' 2'' tall and not 5' 1" tall.

 

[Source]

Motivation.

IQ is as much a measure of MOTIVATION as intelligence. This University of Pennsylvania study found this- http://www.pnas.org/content/108/19/7716

Work ethic, self discipline, family support and encouragement, desire, these are all more important.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/n...ivation-as-well-as-intelligence/#.Vf_OIdJVikp

http://bigthink.com/artful-choice/i...he-intelligence-and-more-about-the-incentives

I don't know of any employer who looks at IQ tests (or even exam results) when deciding who to employ. They look at motivation, work ethic and will this person work in a harmonious way.

Employers in the UK prefer to take on immigrants because they have such a great work ethic.

If anyone doubts that Jews or Asians have a very strong work ethic then go and live in Japan or South Korea.

I believe that any individual living in the west, with an average or even below average IQ, can become wealthy if they are prepared to put in 16 hours days, work hard on their business, take risks, etc.

Its not rocket science to make some money living in a modern industrial society. Pretty much anyone could do it. Most people are not motivated to do it, they are happy with their lot.

Asians and Jews have strong family pressure to do it and an environment which fosters it.

And genetic inheritance directs for all those behaviors, same as genetic inheritance directs for you being 6' 2'' tall and not 5' 1" tall.

Genes are not the only influence on behaviour. The environment/nurture also plays a role.

How much influence each of the above has on behaviour has not been resolved as human behavior is complex enough that a quantitative figure could possibly not be placed on these. This is because nature and culture interact in qualitatively different ways.