George Zimmerman Arrested On Domestic Violence And Weapons Charge

[RavenSky]

Well that claim is easy to refute. Here is the transcript of the 911 call. http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html

He had no problem whatsoever recalling the address of the clubhouse.

Except that he got it wrong. It wasn't "111 Retreat View Circle" but 1111, as is clear from the transcript.

There are quite a few places wherein the transcript doesn't get clearly what Zimmerman said. Even the operator tried to clarify if he said 1111 or 111 but the discussion changed direction and he didn't answer.

I think it is ridiculous to claim Zimmerman didn't know the address of the clubhouse because the recording or the transcriber didn't pick up the extra "1", or frankly, even if Zimmerman dropped the extra "1" in the moment. He clearly did know the address of the clubhouse. He didn't say "I don't know it". He didn't give a bunch of wrong numbers. He volunteered the clubhouse address. This then negates your position that he didn't know his own neighborhood very well.

But let's pretend you are correct. If Zimmerman was so unfamiliar with his own neighborhood - all three streets of it - then he was clearly lying when he claimed to be the diligent Neighborhood Watch dude who knew almost everyone by sight (which is why he claimed he knew Trayvon didn't belong)

If he didn't rememeber that, is it unreasonable to think that he couldn't remember the Twin Trees Lane either? Besides, he clearly describes which way the cops should go, so there was no need to deliberately omit the street name or pretend he didn't know it.

I think it is highly unreasonable to believe he couldn't remember Twin Tree Lane given that it was one of the two main streets in the neighborhood, and one of only three total. I also reject the argument that he didn't remember the address of the clubhouse, because he clearly did.

The "problem" with addresses is that he had no intention of staying at the clubhouse or the mailboxes to wait for police because he was too busy wrongly pursuing Trayvon. If he hadn't been pursuing Trayvon, he could have easily looked at the brightly light house numbers to tell the dispatcher where he was. He couldn't do that only because he wasn't there any more

Zimmerman never said he intended to stay at the clubhouse or at the mailboxes. During his call he instructs the police to go past them. The reason why he couldn't tell the street name is that he didn't remember it; the reason why couldn't tell the number is that he was already out of his truck and at least halfway through the T when the dispatch asked him.

I didn't say he said he intended to stay near his vehicle. We all know he didn't, but he should have. And I'm not arguing with you that he couldn't glance at the well lit house to see the house number because he was no longer there. I agree!

He was wrongly pursuing Trayvon and then killed Trayvon about 45 feet down the un-named alley.

 

[Nexus]

If you say 111 and the correct answer is 1111 that's the verbal equivalent of a typo.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Well that claim is easy to refute. Here is the transcript of the 911 call. http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html

He had no problem whatsoever recalling the address of the clubhouse.

Except that he got it wrong. It wasn't "111 Retreat View Circle" but 1111, as is clear from the transcript. If he didn't rememeber that, is it unreasonable to think that he couldn't remember the Twin Trees Lane either? Besides, he clearly describes which way the cops should go, so there was no need to deliberately omit the street name or pretend he didn't know it.

Yeah. The "evidence" of his evil intent continually just looks like stupidity. The guy certainly is an idiot.

 

[RavenSky]

Except that he got it wrong. It wasn't "111 Retreat View Circle" but 1111, as is clear from the transcript. If he didn't rememeber that, is it unreasonable to think that he couldn't remember the Twin Trees Lane either? Besides, he clearly describes which way the cops should go, so there was no need to deliberately omit the street name or pretend he didn't know it.

Yeah. The "evidence" of his evil intent continually just looks like stupidity. The guy certainly is an idiot.

Is it your position that stupid idiots should get away with killing innocent teenagers?

 

[bleubird]

No the point is to debate endlessly just to debate endlessly.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Shhh. We are almost at 1000 posts.

 

[thebeave]

Given that the wine bottle throwing incident detailed in the OP never even happened in the first place, I nominate this thread to be Worst Use of Electrons in the History of the Internet.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Given that the wine bottle throwing incident detailed in the OP never even happened in the first place, I nominate this thread to be Worst Use of Electrons in the History of the Internet.

Seconded

 

[Bronzeage]

Yeah. The "evidence" of his evil intent continually just looks like stupidity. The guy certainly is an idiot.

Is it your position that stupid idiots should get away with killing innocent teenagers?

A lot of things which should not happen get swept into the filing cabinet of unintended consequences.

A man wants to be a policeman, but is rejected because of his financial history. This means the police department found him to be too irresponsible to be a policeman. The man volunteers to be a neighborhood watchman, which leads him to pursue suspicious characters in the dark, while carrying a concealed weapon.

A teenager walks to a neighborhood store and on the way home is seen by the watchman. The teen feels threatened by a man following him in the dark and confronts the watchman.

Both stand their ground and the consequence of all of this is the teen is killed and the watchman is held blameless.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Is it your position that stupid idiots should get away with killing innocent teenagers?

A lot of things which should not happen get swept into the filing cabinet of unintended consequences.

A man wants to be a policeman, but is rejected because of his financial history. This means the police department found him to be too irresponsible to be a policeman. The man volunteers to be a neighborhood watchman, which leads him to pursue suspicious characters in the dark, while carrying a concealed weapon.

A teenager walks to a neighborhood store and on the way home is seen by the watchman. The teen feels threatened by a man following him in the dark and confronts the watchman.

Both stand their ground and the consequence of all of this is the teen is killed and the watchman is held blameless.

I disagree with only one part but. But to continue..The rules for people

If you think you are being followed and have a cell phone...call 911 and report your issue and let them investigate
Ignore urban rule #1 and head home, lock the doors and call 911
Instead of just screaming help, yell help plus a reason and make noise as you go if you are being followed.

 

[Jayjay]

Except that he got it wrong. It wasn't "111 Retreat View Circle" but 1111, as is clear from the transcript.

There are quite a few places wherein the transcript doesn't get clearly what Zimmerman said. Even the operator tried to clarify if he said 1111 or 111 but the discussion changed direction and he didn't answer.

You don't have to rely to the transcript, you can listen to the call yourself. He clearly says "one eleven". The operator likely asked for clarification because he was checking the map and there was no such house number, not because he didn't hear Zimmerman.

I think it is ridiculous to claim Zimmerman didn't know the address of the clubhouse because the recording or the transcriber didn't pick up the extra "1", or frankly, even if Zimmerman dropped the extra "1" in the moment. He clearly did know the address of the clubhouse. He didn't say "I don't know it". He didn't give a bunch of wrong numbers. He volunteered the clubhouse address. This then negates your position that he didn't know his own neighborhood very well.

Knowing about the clubhouse, with or without the number, hardly shows particularly good knowledge of the neighbourhood. Zimmerman likely has been at the clubhouse several times, and usually these clubhouses also have the official office address of the management and so on, which means he may have had to actually use the address. That doesn't prove that Zimmerman would necessarily remember the name of Twin Trees Lane.

If he didn't rememeber that, is it unreasonable to think that he couldn't remember the Twin Trees Lane either? Besides, he clearly describes which way the cops should go, so there was no need to deliberately omit the street name or pretend he didn't know it.

I think it is highly unreasonable to believe he couldn't remember Twin Tree Lane given that it was one of the two main streets in the neighborhood, and one of only three total. I also reject the argument that he didn't remember the address of the clubhouse, because he clearly did.

If Zimmerman knew the name of Twin Trees Lane, why didn't he say it on the call? That's the street where he directed the police. Not saying its name while giving detailed driving instructions doesn't make any sense.

The "problem" with addresses is that he had no intention of staying at the clubhouse or the mailboxes to wait for police because he was too busy wrongly pursuing Trayvon. If he hadn't been pursuing Trayvon, he could have easily looked at the brightly light house numbers to tell the dispatcher where he was. He couldn't do that only because he wasn't there any more

Zimmerman never said he intended to stay at the clubhouse or at the mailboxes. During his call he instructs the police to go past them. The reason why he couldn't tell the street name is that he didn't remember it; the reason why couldn't tell the number is that he was already out of his truck and at least halfway through the T when the dispatch asked him.

I didn't say he said he intended to stay near his vehicle. We all know he didn't, but he should have. And I'm not arguing with you that he couldn't glance at the well lit house to see the house number because he was no longer there. I agree!

He was wrongly pursuing Trayvon and then killed Trayvon about 45 feet down the un-named alley.

You presented a scenario, that Zimmerman went to the top of the T, and chased Martin down rather than going to RVC. In this case, he would have finished his call before reaching the top of the T, so he would have been able to see a house number. Him not being able to do so is a problem to your scenario.

 

[Bronzeage]

A lot of things which should not happen get swept into the filing cabinet of unintended consequences.

A man wants to be a policeman, but is rejected because of his financial history. This means the police department found him to be too irresponsible to be a policeman. The man volunteers to be a neighborhood watchman, which leads him to pursue suspicious characters in the dark, while carrying a concealed weapon.

A teenager walks to a neighborhood store and on the way home is seen by the watchman. The teen feels threatened by a man following him in the dark and confronts the watchman.

Both stand their ground and the consequence of all of this is the teen is killed and the watchman is held blameless.

I disagree with only one part but. But to continue..The rules for people

If you think you are being followed and have a cell phone...call 911 and report your issue and let them investigate
Ignore urban rule #1 and head home, lock the doors and call 911
Instead of just screaming help, yell help plus a reason and make noise as you go if you are being followed.

Sort of like Zimmerman should have stayed in his truck and waited for the police to arrive. Do you have a rule for him?

If you were Martin, unarmed and being followed by a shadowy character, would you have run, or stood your ground?

 

[RavenSky]

I disagree with only one part but. But to continue..The rules for people

If you think you are being followed and have a cell phone...call 911 and report your issue and let them investigate
Ignore urban rule #1 and head home, lock the doors and call 911
Instead of just screaming help, yell help plus a reason and make noise as you go if you are being followed.

Very telling that you only have "rules" for Trayvon - the innocent teenager killed by Zimmerman.

How about some "rules" for Zimmerman:

* FOLLOW the frickin rules for Neighborhood Watch
* DO NOT follow anyone you suspect is a burglar "up to no good"
* DO NOT take a loaded gun to follow anyone you suspect is a burglar "up to no good"
* KEEP your fat ass IN your truck and wait for the police when you think you spot a burglar "up to no good"

oh, and...

* STOP abusing women, shoving cops, and generally being an aggressive asshole

 

[coloradoatheist]

I disagree with only one part but. But to continue..The rules for people

If you think you are being followed and have a cell phone...call 911 and report your issue and let them investigate
Ignore urban rule #1 and head home, lock the doors and call 911
Instead of just screaming help, yell help plus a reason and make noise as you go if you are being followed.

Very telling that you only have "rules" for Trayvon - the innocent teenager killed by Zimmerman.

How about some "rules" for Zimmerman:

* FOLLOW the frickin rules for Neighborhood Watch
* DO NOT follow anyone you suspect is a burglar "up to no good"
* DO NOT take a loaded gun to follow anyone you suspect is a burglar "up to no good"
* KEEP your fat ass IN your truck and wait for the police when you think you spot a burglar "up to no good"

oh, and...

* STOP abusing women, shoving cops, and generally being an aggressive asshole

I'll agree with those, but they are recommendations. However you are saying that law-abiding citizens must be afraid of criminals and that they can't help the police even though we are asked at different times to help the police. And while we are at, how about getting rid of crime

And for the last part, yes. Zimmerman is playing with fire.

 

[Jayjay]

As long as America as a country believes that everyone should have a right to have a gun or two, some innocent people are bound to get shot. Freedom isn't free!

 

[coloradoatheist]

As long as America as a country believes that everyone should have a right to have a gun or two, some innocent people are bound to get shot. Freedom isn't free!

And we also have two court systems where if two people believe they acted legally but something bad happens, then it's settled in civil court.

 

[Arctish]

Very telling that you only have "rules" for Trayvon - the innocent teenager killed by Zimmerman.

How about some "rules" for Zimmerman:

* FOLLOW the frickin rules for Neighborhood Watch
* DO NOT follow anyone you suspect is a burglar "up to no good"
* DO NOT take a loaded gun to follow anyone you suspect is a burglar "up to no good"
* KEEP your fat ass IN your truck and wait for the police when you think you spot a burglar "up to no good"

oh, and...

* STOP abusing women, shoving cops, and generally being an aggressive asshole

I'll agree with those, but they are recommendations.

Why are there rules for Martin but only recommendations for Zimmerman? It can't be because blacks don't have the same rights as whites, or that blacks need rules because of their Charming But Dangerous Simplemindedness, can it? You're not placing responsibility for the situation onto the shoulders of the unarmed pedestrian who did nothing to create it, and giving a free pass to the guy with the gun who engineered the whole thing, are you?

BTW, if you ever find yourself being pursued by a stranger, I hope you ignore your own bad advice about ignoring Urban Rule #1. Even voles know better than to lead a potential threat straight to the nest.

 

[coloradoatheist]

I'll agree with those, but they are recommendations.

Why are there rules for Martin but only recommendations for Zimmerman? It can't be because blacks don't have the same rights as whites, or that blacks need rules because of their Charming But Dangerous Simplemindedness, can it? You're not placing responsibility for the situation onto the shoulders of the unarmed pedestrian who did nothing to create it, and giving a free pass to the guy with the gun who engineered the whole thing, are you?

BTW, if you ever find yourself being pursued by a stranger, I hope you ignore your own bad advice about ignoring Urban Rule #1. Even voles know better than to lead a potential threat straight to the nest.

They are also recommendations for Martin. There is also a huge difference with humans and voles. A vole can't call the police and have a police officer investigate the predator outside their whole. And voles would have legal right and no question asked about killing or assaulting their predator in their own home.

 

[Arctish]

Why are there rules for Martin but only recommendations for Zimmerman? It can't be because blacks don't have the same rights as whites, or that blacks need rules because of their Charming But Dangerous Simplemindedness, can it? You're not placing responsibility for the situation onto the shoulders of the unarmed pedestrian who did nothing to create it, and giving a free pass to the guy with the gun who engineered the whole thing, are you?

BTW, if you ever find yourself being pursued by a stranger, I hope you ignore your own bad advice about ignoring Urban Rule #1. Even voles know better than to lead a potential threat straight to the nest.

They are also recommendations for Martin.

When you posted your list for Martin you called them rules. When RavenSky responded with a similar list for Zimmerman, you called those recommendations. Your choice of words is telling. You said Martin was subject to rules and that since he didn't follow them, you implied Martin is responsible for the fatal outcome. Meanwhile, you absolved Zimmerman of any duty to follow similar rules by calling them merely recommendations, and thereby implied Zimmerman was free to act however he wished, even if his actions cause a fellow American to have a reasonable fear for his life and safety.

I think there is a lot of victim blaming going on here. The bar is set much higher for the teenaged pedestrian than for the full grown armed pursuer, despite the obvious fact the pursuer was the one who created the conflict.

There is also a huge difference with humans and voles. A vole can't call the police and have a police officer investigate the predator outside their whole. And voles would have legal right and no question asked about killing or assaulting their predator in their own home

Any creature with a lick of sense, voles included, would not lead a potential threat straight home. They would avoid the necessity of fighting for their lives in their own homes by seeking to throw off pursuit before they got there.

That recommendation about Martin ignoring Urban Rule #1 would have done nothing to increase his safety and a hell of a lot to decrease it. I hope you don't make that mistake should you ever find yourself in the same situation he was in.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Maybe sometime down the road you will hear of a story of me running and going into my home and still being killed, but I think the odds of it very low. I'm not worried about it. If I'm in my neighborhood and close to home, I go home and lock the door and call 911. People have watched too many horror movies.