George Zimmerman Arrested On Domestic Violence And Weapons Charge

[Jimmy Higgins]

No, it does not. What you and others who are making up these wildly fantastical scenarios about Zimmerman running around the neighbourhood undetected are suggesting that he made up the his entire story and that he is a complusive liar who regularly does this sort of thing.

Before the 911 call was released, he said the only reason he left the car was to check what address he was at. Then upon returning to his car, Martin ambushed him. This is what he tells the officers that night.

We have enough evidence to know that was crap. No ambush, no address searching. Why lie about it the same night, other than you know it will muddle your right to self defense claim.

 

[Jayjay]

No, it does not. What you and others who are making up these wildly fantastical scenarios about Zimmerman running around the neighbourhood undetected are suggesting that he made up the his entire story and that he is a complusive liar who regularly does this sort of thing.

Before the 911 call was released, he said the only reason he left the car was to check what address he was at. Then upon returning to his car, Martin ambushed him. This is what he tells the officers that night.

We have enough evidence to know that was crap. No ambush, no address searching. Why lie about it the same night, other than you know it will muddle your right to self defense claim.

The question here is not whether Zimemrman would lie about his motivations or something that would immediately torpedo his self-defense claim. the question is whether he would make up huge lies about his whereabouts when he doesn't have to.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Before the 911 call was released, he said the only reason he left the car was to check what address he was at. Then upon returning to his car, Martin ambushed him. This is what he tells the officers that night.

We have enough evidence to know that was crap. No ambush, no address searching. Why lie about it the same night, other than you know it will muddle your right to self defense claim.

The question here is not whether Zimemrman would lie about his motivations or something that would immediately torpedo his self-defense claim. the question is whether he would make up huge lies about his whereabouts when he doesn't have to.

You mean after killing someone? I'm pretty certain one may want to lie in order to make themselves look as innocent as possible.

We know from the 911 call he wasn't checking for an address and was pursuing Martin. He lied about that to the Police. Flat out lied. And we have a good level of certainty that Martin didn't ambush him. That would be another massive lie.

 

[ksen]

Before the 911 call was released, he said the only reason he left the car was to check what address he was at. Then upon returning to his car, Martin ambushed him. This is what he tells the officers that night.

We have enough evidence to know that was crap. No ambush, no address searching. Why lie about it the same night, other than you know it will muddle your right to self defense claim.

The question here is not whether Zimemrman would lie about his motivations or something that would immediately torpedo his self-defense claim. the question is whether he would make up huge lies about his whereabouts when he doesn't have to.

Why do we have to wonder whether he would since he apparently did? Seems Z answered that question for us.

Occam's Razor suggests that if Z told the police he was ambushed by Martin as he was going back to his truck and the evidence says it didn't happen that way that he's lying.

 

[Jayjay]

The question here is not whether Zimemrman would lie about his motivations or something that would immediately torpedo his self-defense claim. the question is whether he would make up huge lies about his whereabouts when he doesn't have to.

You mean after killing someone? I'm pretty certain one may want to lie in order to make themselves look as innocent as possible.

We know from the 911 call he wasn't checking for an address and was pursuing Martin. He lied about that to the Police. Flat out lied. And we have a good level of certainty that Martin didn't ambush him. That would be another massive lie.

No. A massive lie would be to say that he was nowhere in the neighbourhood and someone else killed Martin. Or that he had a car when in fact he was riding a bicycle.

Lying that Martin attacked first is in fact smallest possible lie Zimmerman could tell (if he did in fact attack Martin) to justify self-defense. It doesn't require changing any other facts except the who started the conflict. The location and the people involved and the rough outline of events leading up to it are more or less unchanged.

Zimmerman "lying" about checking an address is even smaller, and could easily be chalked up to him remembering it wrong.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You mean after killing someone? I'm pretty certain one may want to lie in order to make themselves look as innocent as possible.

We know from the 911 call he wasn't checking for an address and was pursuing Martin. He lied about that to the Police. Flat out lied. And we have a good level of certainty that Martin didn't ambush him. That would be another massive lie.

No. A massive lie would be to say that he was nowhere in the neighbourhood and someone else killed Martin. Or that he had a car when in fact he was riding a bicycle.

Or instead of saying, "I pursued after the teen while I was armed with a gun" instead of "I was looking for an address and then I was ambushed" would clearly be a massive lie. Zimmerman set the initial constraints of the incident by saying he was just checking an address to help the Police and was then preemptively attacked. This gives a strong bias that at this point, he has a pretty good claim to self-defense.

Instead, he was armed and in pursuit of Martin.

Lying that Martin attacked first is in fact smallest possible lie Zimmerman could tell (if he did in fact attack Martin) to justify self-defense.

On what planet? That Martin assaulted Zimmerman puts Zimmerman into a defensive position, and there is a good likelihood that Martin means Zimmerman serious harm. Zimmerman wasn't close to being a threat and was now on the ground, getting assaulted by some teen he caught being up to something.

This narrative sets the pace for the investigation.

Zimmerman "lying" about checking an address is even smaller, and could easily be chalked up to him remembering it wrong.

The night it happened? His intent was to get to the teen, while armed with a gun. This shows an aggressive mindset, not an angelic persona of someone just trying to help.

 

[coloradoatheist]

The biggest mistake for Zimmerman than to really to make was to call the police. He should have just shot him walking back from the clubhouse.

 

[ksen]

what mistake? he's free and martin is dead.

 

[Jayjay]

The question here is not whether Zimemrman would lie about his motivations or something that would immediately torpedo his self-defense claim. the question is whether he would make up huge lies about his whereabouts when he doesn't have to.

Why do we have to wonder whether he would since he apparently did? Seems Z answered that question for us.

Occam's Razor suggests that if Z told the police he was ambushed by Martin as he was going back to his truck and the evidence says it didn't happen that way that he's lying.

But the evidence does suggest that he was going back to his truck, instead of running around the townhouses as suggested by some people here.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The biggest mistake for Zimmerman than to really to make was to call the police. He should have just shot him walking back from the clubhouse.

Only a minority are saying Zimmerman murdered Martin, which is what you are alleging. Zimmerman was guilty of manslaughter.

Why do we have to wonder whether he would since he apparently did? Seems Z answered that question for us.

Occam's Razor suggests that if Z told the police he was ambushed by Martin as he was going back to his truck and the evidence says it didn't happen that way that he's lying.

But the evidence does suggest that he was going back to his truck, instead of running around the townhouses as suggested by some people here.

All felons talk on the cell phone while hiding in the bushes, waiting to attack someone.

 

[Jayjay]

No. A massive lie would be to say that he was nowhere in the neighbourhood and someone else killed Martin. Or that he had a car when in fact he was riding a bicycle.

Or instead of saying, "I pursued after the teen while I was armed with a gun" instead of "I was looking for an address and then I was ambushed" would clearly be a massive lie. Zimmerman set the initial constraints of the incident by saying he was just checking an address to help the Police and was then preemptively attacked. This gives a strong bias that at this point, he has a pretty good claim to self-defense.

Instead, he was armed and in pursuit of Martin.

I think we have different definition of what a "massive lie" means so let me clarify. When I say massive, I mean in scope and level of detail required to be made up for the lie to be true. You seem to think massive in terms of consequences or far it is from the truth. For example, my saying that I am sexually attracted to badgers would be a "massive lie" according to your definition, but not that big according to mine. If a guy put a gun to my head and said he'd shoot me if I did not say I am a "badger badger", it would be a very small lie indeed... after all, how would you prove me wrong?

Likewise, Zimmerman claiming self defense and that Martin attacked him first are not massive lies. All they require is for Zimmerman to lie about things that are either inside his head, or the specific moment what happened when he and Martin crossed paths. On the other hand, the various scenarios of Zimmerman jogging around the neighbourhood chasing Martin require that he completely made up where he was and what happened at the T because he would have been nowhere near there.

Lying that Martin attacked first is in fact smallest possible lie Zimmerman could tell (if he did in fact attack Martin) to justify self-defense.

On what planet? That Martin assaulted Zimmerman puts Zimmerman into a defensive position, and there is a good likelihood that Martin means Zimmerman serious harm. Zimmerman wasn't close to being a threat and was now on the ground, getting assaulted by some teen he caught being up to something.

This narrative sets the pace for the investigation.

Zimmerman "lying" about checking an address is even smaller, and could easily be chalked up to him remembering it wrong.

The night it happened? His intent was to get to the teen, while armed with a gun. This shows an aggressive mindset, not an angelic persona of someone just trying to help.

But this detail was given as evidence for Zimmerman being a compulsive liar. If he lied because of some other reasons that would not actually support the claim of Zimmerman making up elaborate lies for no reason at all.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Or instead of saying, "I pursued after the teen while I was armed with a gun" instead of "I was looking for an address and then I was ambushed" would clearly be a massive lie. Zimmerman set the initial constraints of the incident by saying he was just checking an address to help the Police and was then preemptively attacked. This gives a strong bias that at this point, he has a pretty good claim to self-defense.

Instead, he was armed and in pursuit of Martin.

I think we have different definition of what a "massive lie" means so let me clarify. When I say massive, I mean in scope and level of detail required to be made up for the lie to be true. You seem to think massive in terms of consequences or far it is from the truth. For example, my saying that I am sexually attracted to badgers would be a "massive lie" according to your definition, but not that big according to mine. If a guy put a gun to my head and said he'd shoot me if I did not say I am a "badger badger", it would be a very small lie indeed... after all, how would you prove me wrong?

Umm... these hairs seem too fine to quibble over.

Likewise, Zimmerman claiming self defense and that Martin attacked him first are not massive lies.

Only in the sense that his entire self-defense claim rest on those claims?

Lying that Martin attacked first is in fact smallest possible lie Zimmerman could tell (if he did in fact attack Martin) to justify self-defense.

On what planet? That Martin assaulted Zimmerman puts Zimmerman into a defensive position, and there is a good likelihood that Martin means Zimmerman serious harm. Zimmerman wasn't close to being a threat and was now on the ground, getting assaulted by some teen he caught being up to something.

This narrative sets the pace for the investigation.

Zimmerman "lying" about checking an address is even smaller, and could easily be chalked up to him remembering it wrong.

The night it happened? His intent was to get to the teen, while armed with a gun. This shows an aggressive mindset, not an angelic persona of someone just trying to help.

But this detail was given as evidence for Zimmerman being a compulsive liar. If he lied because of some other reasons that would not actually support the claim of Zimmerman making up elaborate lies for no reason at all.

He is a sociopath. They lie and always have a story or excuse that clears them. And I'm not certain the importance of that in this case, more so in other more contemporary cases. He lied about why he was outside the car because he thought he could get away with it, in order to steer the investigation away from his whole killing of someone and more into demonizing the person he killed.

 

[Jayjay]

Only a minority are saying Zimmerman murdered Martin, which is what you are alleging. Zimmerman was guilty of manslaughter.

Why do we have to wonder whether he would since he apparently did? Seems Z answered that question for us.

Occam's Razor suggests that if Z told the police he was ambushed by Martin as he was going back to his truck and the evidence says it didn't happen that way that he's lying.

But the evidence does suggest that he was going back to his truck, instead of running around the townhouses as suggested by some people here.

All felons talk on the cell phone while hiding in the bushes, waiting to attack someone.

Maybe so. But some people here are even denying that Zimmerman was walking towards his truck. We can hardly discuss whether Zimmerman was ambushed or not, if we can't even agree on whether Zimmerman was where it allegedly happened at all.

 

[Nexus]

You have not established a pattern of pathological lying in the scale required by your scenario of Zimmerman lying about parking his car, or running down Twin Trees lane (or for Arctish's and RavenSky's favourite scenario of him running down Retreat View Circle for that matter).

You're forgetting about the lying about assets for bail. His fraudulent art sale after the trial. Occam's razor says you need to start presenting evidence Zimmerman is and honest guy because his history of lying says otherwise. Actually Occam's razor doesn't say that. Occam's razor is a guide for scientists developing theoretical models. Usually a simpler one is preferred however it isn't the arbiter of competing models. Occam's razor doesn't apply at all when trying to figure out the criminal actions of a irrational liar doing foolish things that get him into trouble.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You have not established a pattern of pathological lying in the scale required by your scenario of Zimmerman lying about parking his car, or running down Twin Trees lane (or for Arctish's and RavenSky's favourite scenario of him running down Retreat View Circle for that matter).

You're forgetting about the lying about assets for bail. His fraudulent art sale after the trial. Occam's razor says you need to start presenting evidence Zimmerman is and honest guy because his history of lying says otherwise. Actually Occam's razor doesn't say that. Occam's razor is a guide for scientists developing theoretical models. Usually a simpler one is preferred however it isn't the arbiter of competing models. Occam's razor doesn't apply at all when trying to figure out the criminal actions of a irrational liar doing foolish things that get him into trouble.

Forget Occam. This guy is either Charlie Brown or he puts himself into lots of situations and then lies his way out of it.

 

[Jayjay]

I think we have different definition of what a "massive lie" means so let me clarify. When I say massive, I mean in scope and level of detail required to be made up for the lie to be true. You seem to think massive in terms of consequences or far it is from the truth. For example, my saying that I am sexually attracted to badgers would be a "massive lie" according to your definition, but not that big according to mine. If a guy put a gun to my head and said he'd shoot me if I did not say I am a "badger badger", it would be a very small lie indeed... after all, how would you prove me wrong?

Umm... these hairs seem too fine to quibble over.

Likewise, Zimmerman claiming self defense and that Martin attacked him first are not massive lies.

Only in the sense that his entire self-defense claim rest on those claims?

His self-defense does not rest on the claim that he was at the T, returning to his truck. It rests on Martin attacking first. If the altercation had happened somewhere else, he could have just as easily said Martin ambushed him and threw the first punch.

Let's say Zimmerman had went down RVC, then between the buildings, and then attacked Martin. In that case, why wouldn't he admit to where he was, and that he was just checking where Martin went, couldn't see him, and was returning to his truck through the path between the buildings? Why make up the elaborate lie about him being somewhere else entirely, and risk getting contradicted by possible witnesses? It's a more reasonable assumption that Zimmerman was more or less where he said he was.

Lying that Martin attacked first is in fact smallest possible lie Zimmerman could tell (if he did in fact attack Martin) to justify self-defense.

On what planet? That Martin assaulted Zimmerman puts Zimmerman into a defensive position, and there is a good likelihood that Martin means Zimmerman serious harm. Zimmerman wasn't close to being a threat and was now on the ground, getting assaulted by some teen he caught being up to something.

This narrative sets the pace for the investigation.

Zimmerman "lying" about checking an address is even smaller, and could easily be chalked up to him remembering it wrong.

The night it happened? His intent was to get to the teen, while armed with a gun. This shows an aggressive mindset, not an angelic persona of someone just trying to help.

But this detail was given as evidence for Zimmerman being a compulsive liar. If he lied because of some other reasons that would not actually support the claim of Zimmerman making up elaborate lies for no reason at all.

He is a sociopath. They lie and always have a story or excuse that clears them. And I'm not certain the importance of that in this case, more so in other more contemporary cases. He lied about why he was outside the car because he thought he could get away with it, in order to steer the investigation away from his whole killing of someone and more into demonizing the person he killed.

Certainly. But that's where Occam's Razor comes in. Zimmerman making smallest possible lies he might think he can get away with is more reasonable than him making up an entire elaborate scenario of being somewhere else entirely.

 

[Jayjay]

You have not established a pattern of pathological lying in the scale required by your scenario of Zimmerman lying about parking his car, or running down Twin Trees lane (or for Arctish's and RavenSky's favourite scenario of him running down Retreat View Circle for that matter).

You're forgetting about the lying about assets for bail. His fraudulent art sale after the trial. Occam's razor says you need to start presenting evidence Zimmerman is and honest guy because his history of lying says otherwise. Actually Occam's razor doesn't say that. Occam's razor is a guide for scientists developing theoretical models. Usually a simpler one is preferred however it isn't the arbiter of competing models. Occam's razor doesn't apply at all when trying to figure out the criminal actions of a irrational liar doing foolish things that get him into trouble.

I am not saying that Zimmerman is a honest guy. I am saying he does not have a condition of being a compulsive liar, which is what was claimed here. Lying about his assets or doing dodgy art deals might be dishonest but it hardly establishes that Zimmerman was pathological.

As for being foolish, that contradicts with him being able to make up very elaborate lies to begin with. A stupid person is more likely to stick with simple lies.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Although his "rescue" of the family goes to show how far he will go to stretch the truth.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Certainly. But that's where Occam's Razor comes in. Zimmerman making smallest possible lies he might think he can get away with is more reasonable than him making up an entire elaborate scenario of being somewhere else entirely.

Zimmerman: Well officer, when I said I was checking an address, I was actually in pursuit of the teen while I was armed with a gun. The 911 operator said I didn't need to do that, but I did so anyway.

Officer: Uh huh. That's nice, but where were you?

This seems a red herring.

 

[laughing dog]

You're forgetting about the lying about assets for bail. His fraudulent art sale after the trial. Occam's razor says you need to start presenting evidence Zimmerman is and honest guy because his history of lying says otherwise. Actually Occam's razor doesn't say that. Occam's razor is a guide for scientists developing theoretical models. Usually a simpler one is preferred however it isn't the arbiter of competing models. Occam's razor doesn't apply at all when trying to figure out the criminal actions of a irrational liar doing foolish things that get him into trouble.

I am not saying that Zimmerman is a honest guy. I am saying he does not have a condition of being a compulsive liar, which is what was claimed here. Lying about his assets or doing dodgy art deals might be dishonest but it hardly establishes that Zimmerman was pathological.

It means he is not a trustworthy reporter.

As for being foolish, that contradicts with him being able to make up very elaborate lies to begin with. A stupid person is more likely to stick with simple lies.

Foolish and stupid are different.