George Zimmerman Arrested On Domestic Violence And Weapons Charge

[ZiprHead]

You are right. Zimmerman should have never punched Trayvon.

Was there any indication at all, from the physical evidence, or Jeantal, or wherever, that Z punched M? My impression is that Z wanted to avoid a fight because he knew something that M didn't: that the cops were coming. I think we'd all expect that someone with Z's build (before the trial pounds) should be able to hold his own against M; at least push him off and land a few hits. But Z apparently covered his head and squealed like a baby. It seems the explanation for that behavior is to appear the innocent when the cop eventually arrived. An indication of this is when the first neighbor walks up immediately after M is shot, Z asked him (as testified to by the neighbor at trial) whether he was a cop. We all do this, of course. It's the difference on how we act when we know we're being watched, or think we're being watched, and how we act we know we are not being watched, or think we're not being watched. Like speeding on the highway and everyone slows down when a cop is spotted.

I don't think Z punched T. I do, however, by virtue of Jeantele's testimony think that Z grabbed T. Which would be an illegal assault.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The Zimmerman people are not defending Zimmerman, they are defending themselves.

Zimmerman is a moron. That doesn't change the fact that he was crucified because he shot a black teen in a questionable situation.

 

[Arctish]

Was there any indication at all, from the physical evidence, or Jeantal, or wherever, that Z punched M? My impression is that Z wanted to avoid a fight because he knew something that M didn't: that the cops were coming. I think we'd all expect that someone with Z's build (before the trial pounds) should be able to hold his own against M; at least push him off and land a few hits. But Z apparently covered his head and squealed like a baby. It seems the explanation for that behavior is to appear the innocent when the cop eventually arrived. An indication of this is when the first neighbor walks up immediately after M is shot, Z asked him (as testified to by the neighbor at trial) whether he was a cop. We all do this, of course. It's the difference on how we act when we know we're being watched, or think we're being watched, and how we act we know we are not being watched, or think we're not being watched. Like speeding on the highway and everyone slows down when a cop is spotted.

I don't think Z punched T. I do, however, by virtue of Jeantele's testimony think that Z grabbed T. Which would be an illegal assault.

I think Zimmerman tried one of the MMA moves he'd been practicing at the gym but failed to get a good grip due to his being a poor student and being on Adderall and Temazepam. I think Zimmerman went from thinking he was going to detain a "suspect" until the cops arrived to finding himself in a brawl with a panicky teenager who was strong enough, frightened enough, and desperate enough to whoop his ass.

Remember the part of the walk through where Zimmerman says he reached for his cell phone and he shows the cop how he reached for something on his back hip? Remember where Zimmerman had his 9mm holstered? Who wants to bet Martin saw the gun, saw Zimmerman reaching for it, couldn't get the guy off him, and was fighting for his life?

 

[Arctish]

The Zimmerman people are not defending Zimmerman, they are defending themselves.

Zimmerman is a moron. That doesn't change the fact that he was crucified because he shot a black teen in a questionable situation.

The initial outrage was because it looked like Zimmerman was going to get away with murder. The first State's Attorney to look at the incident dismissed it out of hand.

Whether Zimmerman's victim was a black male teenager, a white female adult, or an Asian American transgender geriatric does not matter in the slightest. He committed homicide, and the question of whether or not it was justified cannot be determined by the age, race, and gender of his victim.

Let us be perfectly clear (listening to Obama's speech ), Martin's race is only important to racists.

 

[Underseer]

The Zimmerman people are not defending Zimmerman, they are defending themselves.

Zimmerman is a moron. That doesn't change the fact that he was crucified because he shot a black teen in a questionable situation.

"Shot a black teen in a questionable situation"?

What an incredible characterization. Somehow, I think that if the races were swapped, you would characterize this incident very differently.

 

[Toni]

The Zimmerman people are not defending Zimmerman, they are defending themselves.

Zimmerman is a moron. That doesn't change the fact that he was crucified because he shot a black teen in a questionable situation.

Crucified???? No. He was acquitted.

 

[laughing dog]

The Zimmerman people are not defending Zimmerman, they are defending themselves.

Zimmerman is a moron. That doesn't change the fact that he was crucified because he shot a black teen in a questionable situation.

Zimmerman got away with killing Martin. To claim this dangerous violent jackass was "crucified" reveals more about your biases than Zimmerman's situation.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

nm

 

[Arctish]

Zimmerman is a moron. That doesn't change the fact that he was crucified because he shot a black teen in a questionable situation.

Zimmerman got away with killing Martin. To claim this dangerous violent jackass was "crucified" reveals more about your biases than Zimmerman's situation.

That reminds me, how much free money did people send him before the trial? How much did he make signing autographs at that gun show? I know his "art" sold for ridiculous sums. For a guy being crucified, he sure got a lot of swag.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Zimmerman is a moron. That doesn't change the fact that he was crucified because he shot a black teen in a questionable situation.

"Shot a black teen in a questionable situation"?

What an incredible characterization. Somehow, I think that if the races were swapped, you would characterize this incident very differently.

So if it was a black man killing a hispanic teen instead of a hispanic man killing a black teen?

 

[AthenaAwakened]

The Zimmerman people are not defending Zimmerman, they are defending themselves.

Zimmerman is a moron. That doesn't change the fact that he was crucified because he shot a black teen in a questionable situation.

Trayvon is the one dead.
Trayvon was the one villified and could not speak for himself and lies now in a grave.
you and your cohorts couldn't nail his body to cross, but you have spent years now beating a dead boy's name like it owed you money.
Your side has lied, you have told quarter truths, and hid the vilest mechanations being a thin veil of calls for reasonable doubt which have neither been reasonable or in any doubt.

Men fight live men not beat up on dead boys.

I am done with this.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/George-Zimm...660?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f457357c4

Scammers gotta scam. (Painting not by George z.)

 

[coloradoatheist]

Can someone describe to me the path that Martin took that is consistent with Jeantel's side of the story?

First, the normal path. From the mailboxes Martin would normally walk straight, and had two ways to head back. He could turn right at the street walk down until his house was on the left. The second normal way was to go to the cut out, turn right and then the house is on the right.

So Jeantel's story is that from the mailbox he started walking home, sees Z decides to run to lose him, loses him, starts walking some more and then says he sees Z still following him and tuns around and talk to each other. So where did Martin go? Or am I wrong remembering Jeantel's version?

 

[ksen]

what does it matter?

 

[Arctish]

Can someone describe to me the path that Martin took that is consistent with Jeantel's side of the story?

First, the normal path. From the mailboxes Martin would normally walk straight, and had two ways to head back. He could turn right at the street walk down until his house was on the left. The second normal way was to go to the cut out, turn right and then the house is on the right.

So Jeantel's story is that from the mailbox he started walking home, sees Z decides to run to lose him, loses him, starts walking some more and then says he sees Z still following him and tuns around and talk to each other. So where did Martin go? Or am I wrong remembering Jeantel's version?

No one knows Martin's exact path. We don't know if he stopped at any point, or if he ran, or whatever. He wasn't on the phone with Jeantel the entire time, and he didn't give her explicit information on his location.

According to Jeantel's testimony, she called him to see what was going on. Martin told her about the "creepy ass cracker" who had been watching him from the car, and that he wasn't sure if the guy was following him. Jeantel said she told Martin to call the police but Martin said he was going to walk home really fast. Moments later Martin suddenly said Zimmerman was right behind him and Jeantel heard the beginning of the fight. All of her testimony is consistent with a teenager just trying to get home safely.

 

[Jayjay]

Can someone describe to me the path that Martin took that is consistent with Jeantel's side of the story?

First, the normal path. From the mailboxes Martin would normally walk straight, and had two ways to head back. He could turn right at the street walk down until his house was on the left. The second normal way was to go to the cut out, turn right and then the house is on the right.

So Jeantel's story is that from the mailbox he started walking home, sees Z decides to run to lose him, loses him, starts walking some more and then says he sees Z still following him and tuns around and talk to each other. So where did Martin go? Or am I wrong remembering Jeantel's version?

No one knows Martin's exact path. We don't know if he stopped at any point, or if he ran, or whatever. He wasn't on the phone with Jeantel the entire time, and he didn't give her explicit information on his location.

According to Jeantel's testimony, she called him to see what was going on. Martin told her about the "creepy ass cracker" who had been watching him from the car, and that he wasn't sure if the guy was following him. Jeantel said she told Martin to call the police but Martin said he was going to walk home really fast. Moments later Martin suddenly said Zimmerman was right behind him and Jeantel heard the beginning of the fight. All of her testimony is consistent with a teenager just trying to get home safely.

I think the inconsistentcy is, if Martin was already in the pathway between the houses, how did the eventual fight end up near the crosswalk? If Martin had been walking towards home he should have been long gone. I think the conclusion is that either Martin turned back (not necessarily to confront Zimmerman, but maybe just to take a different route) or Zimmerman followed him and during the fight they somehow got closer towards the crosswalk. To me the former seems more plausible, but there is really no way to tell from Jeantel's testimony what happened.

 

[coloradoatheist]

No one knows Martin's exact path. We don't know if he stopped at any point, or if he ran, or whatever. He wasn't on the phone with Jeantel the entire time, and he didn't give her explicit information on his location.

According to Jeantel's testimony, she called him to see what was going on. Martin told her about the "creepy ass cracker" who had been watching him from the car, and that he wasn't sure if the guy was following him. Jeantel said she told Martin to call the police but Martin said he was going to walk home really fast. Moments later Martin suddenly said Zimmerman was right behind him and Jeantel heard the beginning of the fight. All of her testimony is consistent with a teenager just trying to get home safely.

I think the inconsistentcy is, if Martin was already in the pathway between the houses, how did the eventual fight end up near the crosswalk? If Martin had been walking towards home he should have been long gone. I think the conclusion is that either Martin turned back (not necessarily to confront Zimmerman, but maybe just to take a different route) or Zimmerman followed him and during the fight they somehow got closer towards the crosswalk. To me the former seems more plausible, but there is really no way to tell from Jeantel's testimony what happened.

Not only that...Janteal explicitly says that Martin was at the back of his father's house. Not near, but back. So instead of going into the back of the house and locking the doors, he decides to go back up the cut through in the back of the house from the house to the T intersection. I'll double check too, but the items that were found on the ground near the fight showed the movement from the T back toward Travyon father's house which would indicate the fight went in the opposite direction of your second scenerio.

 

[Arctish]

No one knows Martin's exact path. We don't know if he stopped at any point, or if he ran, or whatever. He wasn't on the phone with Jeantel the entire time, and he didn't give her explicit information on his location.

According to Jeantel's testimony, she called him to see what was going on. Martin told her about the "creepy ass cracker" who had been watching him from the car, and that he wasn't sure if the guy was following him. Jeantel said she told Martin to call the police but Martin said he was going to walk home really fast. Moments later Martin suddenly said Zimmerman was right behind him and Jeantel heard the beginning of the fight. All of her testimony is consistent with a teenager just trying to get home safely.

I think the inconsistentcy is, if Martin was already in the pathway between the houses, how did the eventual fight end up near the crosswalk? If Martin had been walking towards home he should have been long gone. I think the conclusion is that either Martin turned back (not necessarily to confront Zimmerman, but maybe just to take a different route) or Zimmerman followed him and during the fight they somehow got closer towards the crosswalk. To me the former seems more plausible, but there is really no way to tell from Jeantel's testimony what happened.

There's another possibility that fits the evidence.

It is possible Zimmerman did not follow Martin but instead hurried to cut him off. Zimmerman said in the 911 call that Martin appeared to be heading for the back entrance. If Zimmerman ran between the buildings and down the path while Martin was lingering at the crosswalk trying to see where the creepy guy from the car was, they could have missed each other. Then when Martin resumes his walk home, he sees Zimmerman coming back up the sidewalk looking for him. Martin does a quick 180 and heads back to the top of the T while telling Jeantel the guy from the car is right behind him. Zimmerman recognizes Martin and speeds up. Martin shouts "Why are you following me?", Zimmerman shouts "What are you doing here?", the phone is dropped and the fight breaks out.

One of the residents reported hearing running footsteps coming from the direction of the back entrance (also the direction of Martin's house) and going toward the T intersection, and the phone was found closer to Martin's house than his body was.

It doesn't really matter, though. What matters is that all the evidence we have points to Martin trying to avoid a confrontation and Zimmerman trying to create one. Add to that Zimmerman's history of resorting to violence, Martin's legitimate fear for his life and safety, and you get a teenager rightfully defending himself from a man wrongfully assaulting him.

 

[Jayjay]

I think the inconsistentcy is, if Martin was already in the pathway between the houses, how did the eventual fight end up near the crosswalk? If Martin had been walking towards home he should have been long gone. I think the conclusion is that either Martin turned back (not necessarily to confront Zimmerman, but maybe just to take a different route) or Zimmerman followed him and during the fight they somehow got closer towards the crosswalk. To me the former seems more plausible, but there is really no way to tell from Jeantel's testimony what happened.

There's another possibility that fits the evidence.

It is possible Zimmerman did not follow Martin but instead hurried to cut him off.

I used to believe this when it was first discussed on the forums way back then, but changed my mind because the timeline just doesn't match.

 

[Arctish]

I think the inconsistentcy is, if Martin was already in the pathway between the houses, how did the eventual fight end up near the crosswalk? If Martin had been walking towards home he should have been long gone. I think the conclusion is that either Martin turned back (not necessarily to confront Zimmerman, but maybe just to take a different route) or Zimmerman followed him and during the fight they somehow got closer towards the crosswalk. To me the former seems more plausible, but there is really no way to tell from Jeantel's testimony what happened.

Not only that...Janteal explicitly says that Martin was at the back of his father's house. Not near, but back. So instead of going into the back of the house and locking the doors, he decides to go back up the cut through in the back of the house from the house to the T intersection. I'll double check too, but the items that were found on the ground near the fight showed the movement from the T back toward Travyon father's house which would indicate the fight went in the opposite direction of your second scenerio.

I don't think she said Martin had reached the house. I think that's an interpretation of her recollection that Martin was almost home, with no indication of what that meant. He could have been within sight of it, or 30 seconds away, or some other measure of "almost home" that would still have him out on the sidewalk where Zimmerman was looking for him.

- - - Updated - - -

There's another possibility that fits the evidence.

It is possible Zimmerman did not follow Martin but instead hurried to cut him off.

I used to believe this when it was first discussed on the forums way back then, but changed my mind because the timeline just doesn't match.

If you're using Zimmerman's timeline, don't bother trying to get anything to match. The 911 call doesn't match what he told Serino, and neither one matches the walk-through.

Anyway, like I said, it doesn't really matter. We can speculate about the route each one took that night and be wrong every time. It won't change the fact that Zimmerman is proving himself to be an aggressive bully with a history of resorting to violence.

ETA: I found this:

1. Despite rumors that she and Trayvon were dating, Jeantel told the court that they had never had an official date and were “just friends.”

2. While talking on the phone to her, Trayvon told Jeantel that there was “a man following” him.

3. “He told me he looked like a creepy ass cracker.” Jeantel on how Trayvon described Zimmerman to her.

4. Trayvon then told Jeantel that he was going to try to “lose the man.” He said that he was going to walk home.


5. A short while later, he says to Jeantel “the nigga is still following me.”

6. Jeantel tells the court what happens after that. She told Trayvon to run and she started hearing wind. He told her he was going to get home “through the back.” The phone then shuts off.

7. She calls back and Trayvon answers. He tells Jeantel he is almost home. She can hear that he is out of breath. He tells her that he “lost” the man following him.

8. A couple of seconds after Trayvon said he lost the man, he says to Jeantel, “Oh shit, the nigga is behind me.”

9. She hears the first exchange between Zimmerman and Trayvon. Trayvon to the man following him: “Why are you following me for?” Jeantel she hears another “hard-breathing man” say “What you doing around here?”

10. She hears a bump, and grass sounds, like people are rolling around or the phone dropped on the ground. She asks Trayvon what’s going on and she hears Trayvon saying “get off, get off.” The phone shuts off again.

Obviously these are mostly paraphrases, but if they're accurate it explains the "back home" confusion, and why the timeline is useless in trying to figure out the routes Zimmerman and Martin took.