NYPD Hissy Fit

[RavenSky]

uh, well, per the last 15 years of US military history, yes we can perfectly imagine what would happen if soldiers were doing this: absolutely nothing would happen, except for anyone questioning the military being called a liberal america-hating traitor.

Might not have been clear but i was referring to De Blasio's order that they not protest, as Dave Lindorff noted.
NYC Cops Prove They Aren’t Really Needed

Of course deBlasio should fire the protesting cops in his city for another reason too. Police love to see themselves as domestic soldiers, and to adopt military imagery, awarding ranks like sergeant, lieutenant and captain, wearing American flag lapel pins, medals and braids, and dressing up in military gear for SWAT raids and patrols, armed with the latest semi-automatic arms. But when they publicly diss their boss — both the Mayor and the police chief who told them not to protest his eulogies — they do something that uniformed military personnel would and could never do without facing a court martial. It is totally unacceptable for public employees whom the public has entrusted with a license to kill to disrespect and to refuse the orders of their supervisors and their ultimate boss — the mayor.

^^^ good point

 

[none]

These cops disgust me. Turning their back on the Mayor at a funeral, for daring to suggest they might need to clean up their act? And every time i see one of their spokesmen, they're whining about how they were only arresting people for selling looseys because that's what they were told to do, conveniently avoiding the fact that they were *also* told not to use choke-holds...

And now they're sitting and pouting with their cute little slow-down. Fuck 'em - the whole goddam system is clearly not working properly, time for a large-scale overhaul, with shit-tons of pink slips. Start with the assholes who used officer's funerals as a political stunt. After all, this slowdown seems to indicate that NYC doesn't need as many cops as it currently has in order to maintain order.

/rant

Yeah, it's fucking insane.
police want respect because they are an authority figure yet they protest against an authority figure and wonder why people got a problem with them.
how many cops does the mayor have to choke hold before it would make a difference

 

[Mumbles]

These cops disgust me. Turning their back on the Mayor at a funeral, for daring to suggest they might need to clean up their act? And every time i see one of their spokesmen, they're whining about how they were only arresting people for selling looseys because that's what they were told to do, conveniently avoiding the fact that they were *also* told not to use choke-holds...

And now they're sitting and pouting with their cute little slow-down. Fuck 'em - the whole goddam system is clearly not working properly, time for a large-scale overhaul, with shit-tons of pink slips. Start with the assholes who used officer's funerals as a political stunt. After all, this slowdown seems to indicate that NYC doesn't need as many cops as it currently has in order to maintain order.

/rant

Yeah, it's fucking insane.
police want respect because they are an authority figure yet they protest against an authority figure and wonder why people got a problem with them.
how many cops does the mayor have to choke hold before it would make a difference

And the the offensive thing that authority figure said? That he teaches his son to be careful around the NYPD because they're authority figures.

 

[laughing dog]

If the NYPD showed as much sensitivity to Eric Garner as they are to the mayor, none of this would have happened.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I've been annoyed with unions for years now. I'd like to see them dissolved every few years, and rebuilt from scratch. The concept of the union is a good one, but in practice the scum tends to rise to the top.

I don't think dissolving them will help at all. In practice they always fall under the control of scum at least in our system.

 

[Testy Calibrate]

I've been annoyed with unions for years now. I'd like to see them dissolved every few years, and rebuilt from scratch. The concept of the union is a good one, but in practice the scum tends to rise to the top.

I don't think dissolving them will help at all. In practice they always fall under the control of scum at least in our system.

I think maybe cops just attract abusive people. My experience with public unions has been almost entirely positive and the teachers' unions are almost the only thing holding public education to professional standards these days. At least in the PacNW. I don't know that much about the rest of the country in terms of that. It may be that the rest of the country is just fucked and I've managed to keep my own private idaho safely sealed off. But, at least in Oregon, Washington and Idaho, teachers' unions are a major force protecting public education from an increasingly aggressive private industry which is succeeding in getting bad policy implemented.

The public education budget is a lot of money that the Gates' foundation et al. would like to pillage. Maybe we will legislate the end of such corporate "philanthropy" -I hate to use the word since it has nothing about the interests of others involved- someday. I kind of doubt it though. We do appear to be on a road to institutionalizing the oligarchy and plundering the coffers of government credit until they can foreclose on the creditors.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I don't think dissolving them will help at all. In practice they always fall under the control of scum at least in our system.

I think maybe cops just attract abusive people. My experience with public unions has been almost entirely positive and the teachers' unions are almost the only thing holding public education to professional standards these days. At least in the PacNW. I don't know that much about the rest of the country in terms of that. It may be that the rest of the country is just fucked and I've managed to keep my own private idaho safely sealed off. But, at least in Oregon, Washington and Idaho, teachers' unions are a major force protecting public education from an increasingly aggressive private industry which is succeeding in getting bad policy implemented.

The public education budget is a lot of money that the Gates' foundation et al. would like to pillage. Maybe we will legislate the end of such corporate "philanthropy" -I hate to use the word since it has nothing about the interests of others involved- someday. I kind of doubt it though. We do appear to be on a road to institutionalizing the oligarchy and plundering the coffers of government credit until they can foreclose on the creditors.

Keeping education to professional standards? You mean they don't fight tooth and nail to defend incompetent teachers like most unions do?

 

[dismal]

I think maybe cops just attract abusive people. My experience with public unions has been almost entirely positive and the teachers' unions are almost the only thing holding public education to professional standards these days. At least in the PacNW. I don't know that much about the rest of the country in terms of that. It may be that the rest of the country is just fucked and I've managed to keep my own private idaho safely sealed off. But, at least in Oregon, Washington and Idaho, teachers' unions are a major force protecting public education from an increasingly aggressive private industry which is succeeding in getting bad policy implemented.

The public education budget is a lot of money that the Gates' foundation et al. would like to pillage. Maybe we will legislate the end of such corporate "philanthropy" -I hate to use the word since it has nothing about the interests of others involved- someday. I kind of doubt it though. We do appear to be on a road to institutionalizing the oligarchy and plundering the coffers of government credit until they can foreclose on the creditors.

Keeping education to professional standards? You mean they don't fight tooth and nail to defend incompetent teachers like most unions do?

Don't you remember when everyone here called for Scott Walker to fire all the teachers in Wisconsin when they had their work slowdown? These people just have something against public sector unions.

 

[Testy Calibrate]

Loren, I'm not sure we can really have that conversation. The answer is no but it takes some pretty substantial initial wrong assumptions about the teaching system to make that statement. In portland, where I live, teachers are required to have a masters degree and to attend quite a bit of professional development. That alone increases the quality of the pool but the behavior which you are referring to is actually the way they keep the good ones, not the bad ones. The job is pretty demanding and the bad ones largely wash out on their own. Administrations are notorious for making the job more difficult rather than less and the good teachers stay because the unions keep the worst of the potential abuses at bay.

But in a district with 3000 teachers, the nature of standard distributions guarantees a top and bottom ten percent. That means 600 awesome and inspired teachers and 600 less or even not awesome and inspired teachers with the.range between being partly invisible. No policy will ever change that because it's a statistical fact of our reality.

Also, private school teachers are in general quite a bit less qualified across the board than public school teachers so the argument is already empty.

The problem isn't bad teachers. That's a propaganda talking point. Sure there are bad teachers. But that isn't the problem with education or teachers' unions. One bad teacher can ruin a whole classroom. One bad administrator can ruin a whole district. The idea.that teachers have no interest in outcomes is not just ignorant, it's offensive.

 

[rednoise]

<edit>

 

[Mumbles]

Sorry for this...

If the NYPD showed as much sensitivity to Eric Garner as they are to the mayor, none of this would have happened.

No, it would just be some other black person - although it's probably have been some unjustified shooting, like that guy who was in a stairwell when a cop opened a door, was "startled" and shot him dead. There's always something. We black folks are used to hearing about the latest black person shot for reaching into their pocket, or tackled while walking down the street, or...whatever normal thing people do.

I keep saying this, and it's still true - Ferguson changed things. If they'll stay changed, I dunno, but having an entire police force attacking mourners, marching around and attacking a neighborhood, pointing guns at random people, suppressing the press, playing real-life video games, and just generally blasting tear-gas anyone they didn't want around - and then having the police chiefs of the area just lie over and over, and then the prosecutor come out, give a smarmy press conference, snd then admit to being unethical on radio...they might have just broken the system. But when's the last time multiple police forces joined up to attack an entire neighborhood, and the press was like "Oh, it's good.", while everyone on social media heard exactly what happened? I'm thinking...never.

That's these funny about screechy speeches by these Union Bosses, as if di Blasio were about to release the Joker from Arkhamn Asylum. "Well, Al Sharpton" - no, the leaders have been saying "Fuck Al Sharpton" the entire time. They're saying "Fuck the NAACP." And especially in Ferguson, which is the epicenter, they've been saying "We're ready to die!" for months. Hell, I joked about how out-of-it- the NAACP has been in this movement, after some local chapter was supposedly bombed. They aren't the ones out there now - which is fine. But they aren't necessarily the ones organizing, marching, protesting, anymore.

And I'll say it, but I'll say it - GODDAMN this has gotten crazy! The Supreme Court claiming that a Standard that was reaffirmed from 5 years before a ruling, and that *any* state could get out from under by behaving for 10 years, is actually from 50 years ago, as in the VRA? Some trust fund idiot becoming the frontrunner for the GOP nomination by repeatedly barking "Birf certificate"? Many states moving openly to get rid of Sunday early voting to get rid of "Souls to the Polls"? Various GOP highlighters claiming that near-universal healthcare or tax cuts for everyone are "reparations"? People hearing a tape of George Zimmerman literally claiming that he was following Trayvon Martin, and then stating that Martin must have rushed up and attacked Zimmerman (Oh,for those of you who said we'd forget...no. Big event) And I won't be forgetting Geraldo Rivera's idiotic remarks, either - nor anyone else on Fox News.

They called Common a thug. Common. This Dude:

 

[bleubird]

BWE.You are a bit new here.Some posters just fart out stuff only based on ideology.It would violate the use rules to name them,but you will soon see them.

 

[rednoise]

BWE.You are a bit new here.

lol

- - - Updated - - -

BWE. Your post count is 666 right now. Don't post anymore.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Loren, I'm not sure we can really have that conversation. The answer is no but it takes some pretty substantial initial wrong assumptions about the teaching system to make that statement. In portland, where I live, teachers are required to have a masters degree and to attend quite a bit of professional development. That alone increases the quality of the pool but the behavior which you are referring to is actually the way they keep the good ones, not the bad ones. The job is pretty demanding and the bad ones largely wash out on their own. Administrations are notorious for making the job more difficult rather than less and the good teachers stay because the unions keep the worst of the potential abuses at bay.

That has nothing to do with the unions defending bad teachers. What do you mean by "wash out"? Sure, they might know they can't cut it but that doesn't mean they'll quit and throw away their training.

But in a district with 3000 teachers, the nature of standard distributions guarantees a top and bottom ten percent. That means 600 awesome and inspired teachers and 600 less or even not awesome and inspired teachers with the.range between being partly invisible. No policy will ever change that because it's a statistical fact of our reality.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't set a minimum acceptable standard and get rid of anyone below it. Such as the one I ran into teaching 8th grade math--and certainly not capable of passing her own class. Last I knew she was teaching the slow algebra class in high school. I'm sure her students weren't learning anything.

Also, private school teachers are in general quite a bit less qualified across the board than public school teachers so the argument is already empty.

No. You are equating a piece of paper with the ability to do the job. I have no idea how the teacher I mentioned above got her degree, she was incapable of doing simple multiplication without a calculator.

The problem isn't bad teachers. That's a propaganda talking point. Sure there are bad teachers. But that isn't the problem with education or teachers' unions. One bad teacher can ruin a whole classroom. One bad administrator can ruin a whole district. The idea.that teachers have no interest in outcomes is not just ignorant, it's offensive.

Bad teachers are *part* of the problem, not the whole problem.

 

[Testy Calibrate]

That has nothing to do with the unions defending bad teachers. What do you mean by "wash out"? Sure, they might know they can't cut it but that doesn't mean they'll quit and throw away their training.

Well, like I said, there's always going to be a bottom ten percent. But yes, in fact, most bad teachers leave the teaching profession after a few years because it is a fantastically demanding job. That isn't to say all bad teachers, but professional standards are not the same in all places and I've never heard of a union arguing that increasing professional standards relating to new hires is a bad idea. If that is the case, then that would be an example of a teachers union exercising questionable leadership. I say questionable because the circumstances would matter in such a case. But again, you are inflating the problem of bad teachers to purely fictional levels of influence. I get the feeling you think the unions have no interest in the quality of education delivered by its members. That is, as I said, both wrong and ignorant. Also stupid.

But in a district with 3000 teachers, the nature of standard distributions guarantees a top and bottom ten percent. That means 600 awesome and inspired teachers and 600 less or even not awesome and inspired teachers with the.range between being partly invisible. No policy will ever change that because it's a statistical fact of our reality.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't set a minimum acceptable standard and get rid of anyone below it. Such as the one I ran into teaching 8th grade math--and certainly not capable of passing her own class. Last I knew she was teaching the slow algebra class in high school. I'm sure her students weren't learning anything.

Also, private school teachers are in general quite a bit less qualified across the board than public school teachers so the argument is already empty.

No. You are equating a piece of paper with the ability to do the job. I have no idea how the teacher I mentioned above got her degree, she was incapable of doing simple multiplication without a calculator.

The problem isn't bad teachers. That's a propaganda talking point. Sure there are bad teachers. But that isn't the problem with education or teachers' unions. One bad teacher can ruin a whole classroom. One bad administrator can ruin a whole district. The idea.that teachers have no interest in outcomes is not just ignorant, it's offensive.

Bad teachers are *part* of the problem, not the whole problem.

So, you encountered a bad teacher and think that's the reason kids who grow up in poverty lag behind affluent kids on standardized tests. Am I right?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Bad teachers are *part* of the problem, not the whole problem.

So, you encountered a bad teacher and think that's the reason kids who grow up in poverty lag behind affluent kids on standardized tests. Am I right?

No. I realize that the big problem with the kids in poverty is parents who don't care. Bad teachers are a problem but they're a sporadic problem, not a crushing problem.